Mosler Cannonball Safe (Parts Missing)

[djed]

The collar has a slotted 1/4" countersunk oval head bolt. It slides most of the way through the shaft but then is threaded in the shaft as well as the other side of the collar.

OK - now we may be getting somewhere. Maybe what I'm dealing with is a messed up screw whose head was previously broken off? I would have thought so since I have a similar pin on my extra crank but I'll think about it.

Some facts which I hadn't thought to mention until now.

What I call a pin does turn about 1/4 turn but then stops turning. Believe me it does not want to unscrew. That said, there is about 1/8" in-and-out play thus suggesting this is not a screw.

https://imgur.com/SR7uA4y

On the other side where there is no pin (https://imgur.com/wl4XKLv), I tried first pushing with a punch (thinking the "pin" might go all the way through) and then a high quality metal drill bit). No luck. I bottomed the drill out in hardened (manganese?) steel leading me to think there is a different pin in each side of the collar.

I realize you guys can't do the work for me so I'm going to have to figure this one out.

I do greatly appreciate your thoughts, write up, and pictures.

[00247]

If the pin rotates some, can you see it move on the other side? If there is some movement there is hope! Often a press will work better than pounding.

I don't think yours is a bolt like mine. My screw door is newer than your cannonball. Probably from the late 20's or early 30's.

Worst case scenario is you cut the collar off and have a new one turned. The old one needs work anyway. Measure it well before you destruct. See if you can get the plate off under the screw to at least get the shaft out. The cranks are clumsy to work with.

I pulled one of my dials, but mine do not have a nut. They are made as one piece. Can't help you there. Check with Doug, he may have some advice. If you use a socket, inspect the end of it. Often they are tapered at the very end. If it is, grind it flat so it makes full contact with a thin nut like that. Be gentle. Maybe it can be plated as an assembly?

[74TR6]

"...In general, I would assume a taper pin is narrower/wider on one end than the other. However, so I can better understand its application with this crank, please clarify..."

A straight pin in a straight drilled hole has very little holding effect. If used, the difference in the dia of the hole and pin is .001 to .002" press fit. Still not the best choice on a handle with side pressure/stress to sides of pin.
Taper pin: a hole is drilled as normal for a pin; then a taper reamer is inserted and hole reamed to a tapered configuration with entry dia being maybe .008 to .010" larger than exit/original dia. Sleeve, collar, pulley etc is placed in position and a pin matching this taper is inserted to attach part. A few heavy blows with a hammer drives the taper (pin and reamed hole) very tightly together. Pins can be harder steel than CRS shafts. Part is held securely and pin is usually a PITA to remove. A press works much better than hammer and punch.
A trick I have used on really stubborn pins is the drill from small end of pin with a bit slightly smaller than pin dia; drill approx 3/4 length of pin, not full length. This gives a nice recessed surface to set a punch and press pin out; drilled hole also seems to relieve a bit of the holding stress between the pin and shaft

[djed]

Maybe I'm not understanding or am a bit slow.

In my application, the outside of the pin is presumably narrower than the part of the pin I cannot see (and don't have access to). The shaft in the side that I can see has a 1/4" deep hole so I'm assuming that what the other side looks like. I don't believe the hole goes all the way through the shaft.

David

[djed]

Put the pin in a bench vice and tried to pry it off with the crank handle. Of course it broke off. Drilled it out, used some wedges to get the collar off and look what I found.





If you can't see from the pictures, the "pin" hole is threaded on one side.

There's obviously a taper of some sort.

Now I'm going to clean everything up to get ready for the plater.

[djed]

A Mosler time lock and a few parts I need came up on EBay. Although it's a bit more than I want to spend, I think I'll bid on it. I'll use the best of the parts and resell the rest.

Hopefully the movements are good.

[00247]

I know David has been busy with work so he hasn't been able to make much progress. I started on my Mosler screw door safe and learned a few things. The desert cannonball has it's share of rust which presents challenges for all aspects of the restoration. My Mosler, which was always stored inside, albeit not good storage the last years, has some spots of rust on the threads and jamb of the door and body. As I started the clean up process problems arose.





I wasn't concerned as when I did my Victor cannonball these parts cleaned up nicely. Unfortunately, the quality of Mosler's steel and machining are not as good as Victor's. The threads, which are bolted to the door body, are of good quality steel and are machined quite nice. The inside threads are also a bolted on piece of the same steel. They polished up quickly and look great. The Door body and inner jamb are a different story. First the steel is of a lesser quality with imperfections in the steel. These pieces are also machined at a less than perfect finish. The steps are machined at a taper and have uneven transitions in the surface. The cutting bit also must have been chattering as the surface is not turned smoothly. The rougher finish actually worked to my advantage as even the light rust pitted the lower quality steel quite a bit and the textured finished helps disguise the pits.

After nearly 10 hours of working the steel with 3M EXL wheels of different grits and size on a die grinder things have shaped up pretty good. It will never look like a fresh perfectly machined part but is wasn't perfectly machined in the first place! After nearly 100 years it is as good as it is going to get other than a final buff later.



I will create a separate thread on this project once some substantial progress is made. For now I just wanted to give Djed some inspiration to keep up the battle and to know that perfection on a Mosler is not to be.

[djed]

Great work. I'm traveling now but I had thought the door on the cannonball (being so rough) was made of Manganese steel. I'll have to rethink that.

Aside from being super busy with work, it's been over 100F the last several days and I'm not going to subject myself to that heat.

[00247]

Thought I would dig up this thread with the discussion on Mosler cranks for the cannonballs and screw doors. My screw door projects are slowly moving along and it is always fun when final assemblies occur. Here is a freshly assembled Mosler ratcheting crank.

[GWiens2001]

Did you have that chrome plated instead of nickel plated?

Gordon

[00247]

No, I stick with nickel plating as original. It has the warmer vintage look that is authentic, although it is not as durable as chrome.

[GWiens2001]

Thanks. I could not tell from the picture.

Gordon

[Squelchtone]

Any of you worked on a Mosler Cannonball? I need to remove the ring gear and am curious if there is a trick to removing the four ring gear screws?

[image] https://imgur.com/a/jfR1Ubh[/image]



https://i.imgur.com/HmVsVWq.jpeg

[djed]

An overnight soak in PB Blaster did the trick. Three of the four screws are now loosened.

[billdeserthills]

Ever try an automatic center punch to loosen screws?

Those screws do look pretty big, might be too big for an automatic centerpunch

https://www.walmart.com/ip/General-Tool ... &gclsrc=ds