Old castell padlock pat n 430168

[femurat]

I got this nice padlock some time ago and was going to make a key for it.

I found a key cut quite shallow that seemed a bit too big but could fit. Filed it until it entered the keyway. Then I blackened it with a candle and tried to impression it. Got not much luck because I couldn't find a way to put pressure to the pins to leave marks. Pulling the lock apart with my fingers was not enough, and I don't want to ruin this beauty so I'm not going to force it with tools that could leave marks. Does anybody have some hints on how to impression it?

I shimmed it open and analyzed the pins. The bittings seems very similar to a couple keys I found with an online search. The first pin long, the second one very short and the last two almost the same length as the first one. Is this padlock part of a big master key system?

Thanks

[kwoswalt99-]

File the first key cut down incrementally until the shim goes in, then the second pin, and the third, etc.

[femurat]

Thanks, that's what I've tried to do yesterday evening.

There must be something wrong with this lock. The key can only enter halfway and the shim can't go in if the key is inserted (I know I have to slowly back off the key to allow the pin to rise while pushing the shim in).
I count 4 or 5 pins. If I push the pins down with a pick, I can insert the shim.
Maybe I just need to clean and oil the pins. I was trying to avoid it since my idea was to impression the key, and impressioning and oil don't go along well.
Will try again today, maybe I'll file a longer ramp on the key tip. It should give me more control on the pins height. Stay tuned.

Cheers

[femurat]

I was given the patent for this padlock and I think I got why the shim didn't enter. There's a special pin at the end of the keyway that needs to be pushed up to allow the padlock to slide open. The key tip should move it up and free the pin.
Since the key bow made it difficult to insert the shim from the first pin side, I was trying to insert it from the opposite side. When I was using the pick to lift the pins I lifted the last special pin and made room for the shim. When I was using the key I slide it back and the special pin blocked the shim.

I'll file my key tip to fit that mechanism, it'll hopefully solve this problem. Or I'll file away the key bow, allowing me to insert the shim along with the key.

Cheers

[femurat]

I got a couple YA6 blanks and filed down one to fit the keyway. I had to file it on top and bottom, but fortunately I hadn't to fiddle with the wardings because they matches.



Here is my first failed attempt with an old key and the new blank just filed.



And here are the pin impressions. I'm impressed (pun intended) on how good they are.
I've sanded the key smooth with 400 grit sandpaper, inserted in the padlock and wiggled left and right while trying to pull the lock apart with my fingers. I really don't want to ruin this padlock so I'm taking my time and working carefully.
I'll scrape some lines along the pin positions on the key side so I can follow them while filing.
I'll finish this key as soon as I have some free time.

A warning if you shim these padlocks: the first two pins will fly away when you open it. Keep the shim down while opening the lock.
If it happens, don't move the lock, look for the pins and insert them again. The pin stacks are balanced so be sure to put the correct pin in its chamber.

Cheers

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Well done. Excellent pictures.

[femurat]

After a lot of filing I got the key that opened the lock.







I was very happy and excited and had time to take the pictures you see above before closing the padlock again.

Then I felt something small falling. One pin was on the floor and another one was on the table. Now I know why the original key has such a weird looking flat part between the bittings and the bow.
I had to think for a few minutes to understand why the bottom pins of chamber 1 and 2 fell off and to find a way to put them back where they belonged.
I closed the padlock, removed the key and shimmed it open again. I kept the padlock upside down so the top pins in chamber 1 and 2 were sitting in the plug and not in the lock body. I could then open it and insert the bottom pins back in their chambers. If it wasn't possible to shim it I could have broken it at least three times already.

I need to solder something on the bottom of this key to fill the gap between it and the plug. Now that I know it has this defect I can use it alongside with a pick, so the pins can't fly out again. Or I can find a proper key blank and copy the bittings to that blank.



Comparing the old key I tried to impression earlier with the working one, I see I may still make it work. Looks like I just need to make some cuts deeper. It's strange that I stopped getting marks.





Finally the padlock has its strage hasp on again and its working key.



Cheers

[femurat]

To solve the problem of the pins falling down, I filed the shoulder of the key and cut a piece of brass to match the gap between the key and the padlock.



Ten got ready to solder it. I heated everything and then applied some solder, then heated some more and added some more solder. I then checked the brass piece was straight and heated it just a few seconds more, then let it cool.







I left the brass piece a bit bold so I filed it down later. Then sanded it smooth and finally gave it a quick buff.
This padlock finally has a properly working key!









Cheers

[cledry]

Nice work, but will solder hold? I was told that unless it is silver solder (really brazing) that solder isn't really a mechanical connection.

[GWiens2001]

Very nicely done, Femurat! A bit jealous over here. I'd have that lock hanging from the bookshelf brackets in my computer room. Nice and unique.

Gordon

[femurat]

Thanks for the compliments I'll find a place for it.

Dunno if solder will last, cledry. I hope so. Keep in mind that that key is stopped by its tip, like BEST locks, so the tab I soldered is not hit every time the key is used.
It's not how these locks are made, it's just how my key came out after I impressioned it. There's very little space between it and the lock body.
The only force this tab is subject is two springs pushing the first two pins against it while the padlock opens.

I looked into silver soldering but I was told the rods are perishable due to time and humidity. And they are sold a dozen at a time. So spending 30 euro to solder a key wasn't an option.

Cheers

[femurat]

Here is the key with the blank I used. As you can see it was heavily modified.

Now that I look at it this way, I think I could have done it different.
I could have filed the tip shorter and filed the bow instead of having to add a piece.
When I have some time I may try to make a copy of that key...

Cheers