deep false set, no security pins

[ffmurray]

Ive gotten pretty good at the defiant locks, and have move on to some schlage locks. for my first time working with this keyway I re pined the lock with no security pins but left all 5 pins in. Im having trouble getting the picks in and getting a good feel, i think my picks might just be to fat (0.026" to 0.030") to get a good feel because they are scraping on the warding pretty good. But that is not the big question. I was picking it in my vice and i got what seemed to be a really deep false set, but then I couldn't feel anything on the pins at all, no binding pin, and like i said earlier, re pinned with all new pins, and everything is standard, no spools or anything like that. When i let off of the tension nothing let go, all the pins were set and it seems like it was to far over to have over-set something. Is it as simple as that or am i missing something?

[kwoswalt99-]

You could have one pin stack too short, and be pushing against a spring.

[ffmurray]

You could have one pin stack too short, and be pushing against a spring.

Im guessing that the pin stack lenth is the combined length of the top pin and the key pin? when I "re keyed" it i didn't really, i just replaced all of they key pins and top pins with standard pins from my LAB kit, keying to an existing schlage key, for the top pins I used the ones recommended on the lab chart (one .235 and four .200)

I just tried it again and once again got the false set. so it wasnt a one off deal

[Mighty]

First thing, you should check what kwoswalt99 said, since he knows a lot more about this than me. You should open up the lock quick, take the cylinder out and (with the key pins still in) put some top pins into the pin holes on top of the key pins to see if any of the stacks are below where the shear line would be. That would answer the stack height question in a couple minutes. You can also check if you forgot one of the top pins or something.

If you're sure you haven't done what I would do (forgot to put a top pin in one of the stacks), then you may be doing what you suggested; overpicking a pin. Though that would mean you had overpicked it so high that the point of the pin was acting like the centre of a spool. When you get that false set, are all the pins slightly springy, or just completely loose? All springy would suggest an overpick. All loose, could go either way.

If you feel like you're getting caught on the warding it could be causing an overpick. Do you usually have a big jump of your pick right before this happens? I have a few locks where I am guilty of doing this. You want to make sure you are in control of every millimeter that pick moves, and avoid and big jumps. I would try to pick it again super slowly with moderate wrench tension and very light pressure from your pick.

Schlage keyways are pretty wide, so the thickness of the pick probably wouldn't be too much of an issue. You could try a pick with a narrower shaft (vertically, rather than thickness-wise), or polish your picks to see if that helps your movement. When you use a more flexible pick, you give up a bit of feedback.

Count how many pins you set before you get the false set. Are you on the last one? Have you picked them all, and it's just caught on something, but you have actually opened it? Is it always the same pin that gives you that false set?

I'm interested in hearing what it was! Let me know if you get it figured out.

[capt.dunc]

some locks load through the bottom then a plate slides in to seal these holes, some yales for example. you can pick a lock, and as the core rotates the tip of your wrench catches on the edge of the trough that holds this plate. this looks like a false set.