What determines quality

[marplots]

I've read a bit on the forum about "junk" or low-quality picks from various manufacturers (usually Chinese sourced) and, despite this, I ordered some really cheap picks (plenty of duplicates). I'm interested in just what makes "junk" junk. In other words, suppose you got two similar picks to examine, what would tell you that one was crap and the other quality?

A few things I can think of:
Thickness of metal used
Whether or not there is a burr
Finish
How brittle the pick is
Mis-cut profile
Handle

I'm wondering (while I wait several weeks for my order to arrive) if some of the "issues" might be fixed easily enough (like filing off burrs) and still make a cheap set of picks worth having.

[Silverado]

I have a cheap Chinese set, Goso, and in my opinion they really are junk.
Prior to purchasing that set I had a Majestic 6 pick basic set and they weren't bad. They needed some adjustment with 600+ grit sandpaper to make them nice and smooth. I recently got a Southord PXS-14 set, and it was worth spending the extra money. They don't need much work...a couple of the picks will need some sanding.

Anyway, the Goso set is made of cheap steel and is extremely soft and bendable. It could be preference, I don't like soft bendy steel for my picks.

To answer your question; What determines quality?
I believe it is ultimately the quality of the steel. Something springy, that will not collapse under pressure.
I don't see finish as a high priority because it doesn't take much work to get a nice finish on them.

[marplots]

I have a cheap Chinese set, Goso, and in my opinion they really are junk...

Anyway, the Goso set is made of cheap steel and is extremely soft and bendable. It could be preference, I don't like soft bendy steel for my picks.

To answer your question; What determines quality?
I believe it is ultimately the quality of the steel. Something springy, that will not collapse under pressure.
I don't see finish as a high priority because it doesn't take much work to get a nice finish on them.

Have you tried annealing and tempering them?
It would depend on the steel - the carbon content.

When you say "bendable" do you mean you are bending the pick in the keyway with normal use? And do they bend side-to-side or up-and-down? I'm asking for specifics because I want to test the picks I get in various ways to see which flaws can be overcome and which cannot. I've never had a pick bend on me and stay bent (not spring right back).

[Squelchtone]

Some of the pick shapes in the cheap chinese sets are just really strange like the designer never picked in his life and drew up some pick shapes that sorta kinda look like some of the common pick shapes you'll see in an HPC or Southord brand pick set. Some of the cheap sets have all hooks or very sharp small hooks almost as sharp as dental tools, and the wrenches can be awkward to hold, the part that inserts into the keyway can be too long or wide and the handle of the wrench can be a thin round rod which is unusual and not comfortable to use.

It doesnt all have to do with quality of the metal, or how flexible or brittle it is and nobody who buys a cheap pick set should have to temper or anneal it in order to make it better. Time is worth money as well, I wouldn't personally buy cheapest possible pick set and then spend hours making it as good as a $30 dollar Southord.

Squelchtone

[marplots]

Some of the pick shapes in the cheap chinese sets are just really strange like the designer never picked in his life and drew up some pick shapes that sorta kinda look like some of the common pick shapes you'll see in an HPC or Southord brand pick set. Some of the cheap sets have all hooks or very sharp small hooks almost as sharp as dental tools, and the wrenches can be awkward to hold, the part that inserts into the keyway can be too long or wide and the handle of the wrench can be a thin round rod which is unusual and not comfortable to use.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for those.

It doesnt all have to do with quality of the metal, or how flexible or brittle it is and nobody who buys a cheap pick set should have to temper or anneal it in order to make it better. Time is worth money as well, I wouldn't personally buy cheapest possible pick set and then spend hours making it as good as a $30 dollar Southord.

Squelchtone

Yeah, I get the money equivalent bit, but I'm the sort of person who will spend hours on picking when I could cut and replace the lock. For me, the definition of "hobby" almost assures a negative cash flow. Still, with the price differential, I can toss out half or two-thirds of the cheap stuff and still come out ahead. What I have in mind is a kind of hybrid between buying a quality brand name kit and homemade.

[Silverado]

I don't mind sanding some rough edges down, but I'm not about to try to temper what I imagine is one of the lowest grade steels possible.
They're flimsy, is what I mean. They bend any direction and stay bent, rather than making any sort of attempt to return to their original position. Whatever direction you move it is where it stays.

I'm much happier with my Southord set. I got all the picks I typically use and it was only $25 or so.
At a price standpoint, the Goso set was $15, came with one good standard hook, one half decent dimple rake, and a usable (but not great) tension wrench along with a dozen or so ridiculous shaped picks and hooks so deep you'd need an open car window as a key-way to fit. All in all, I feel like I spent $15 on three usable tools.

I also have a basic Majestic set I got over ten years ago that's still in good shape.

[tpark]

Southord picks are pretty good. Sparrows are good. My preference is for HPC or Peterson - my old HPC picks are still good even though they show discoloration from the brass in the keyway rubbing off on them, and the Peterson ones are mostly good, except for a 15 thou Gem that's seen better days from picking spools. I've received defective Peterson picks, but their customer service has been exemplary, and they sent replacements immediately.

I think that locksport people may be harder on picks than pros. Since pros are on the clock, they have to have a solution quickly, and if picking/snapping/bumping doesn't work, they have to use destructive techniques. Challenge locks can have all sorts of weird stuff in them, so it's possible to spend a long time trying to pick these locks, and since it's not a customer problem, it's possible to spend a lot of time on one lock. If you can lean reasonably hard on the pick and it doesn't bend, if it's thin enough that it doesn't jam in the keyway, and the handle of the pick doesn't suck, that's a quality pick. I think everyone has their own standards and favorites. It's nice if the pick is well finished too.

[marplots]

If you can lean reasonably hard on the pick and it doesn't bend, if it's thin enough that it doesn't jam in the keyway, and the handle of the pick doesn't suck, that's a quality pick. I think everyone has their own standards and favorites. It's nice if the pick is well finished too.

This is kind of my thinking as well. There seems to be two distinct camps. There's the side that argues for top-quality, higher priced picks in the way I might argue for buying the best tools available for any task. Then there's the camp that's going to make their own version, enjoy making it, and seems to get the same results as those in the first camp.

I'm not married to any particular position, but was surprised by the prices for picks (I hadn't bought any for more than a decade) when they are essentially a stamped piece of thin metal. Honestly, could they really cost more to manufacture than a quality stainless steel butter knife? If I'm willing to buy no handle, no pouch and modify to how I want them to be...

Anyhow, that's why I started this thread - to get some ideas on what others mean when they talk about quality and what to test when my "cheapies" get here. One thing I know, the lock mechanism isn't aware of the pick's brand name or country of origin.