So I have a kwikset as one of my few practice locks lying around. I can rake it with a W-rake in seconds. Kinetic attack it with a diamond in seconds. And it seems to be keyed to the exact shape of my city rake because that's the quickest method I can come up with...
For the life of me, I can't SPP the bugger. It seems like none of the pins set for me. I've tried with minimal tension and gradually increased tension to get SOMETHING to pop through the shear line.
Any advice here? I don't want to gut it until I can SPP it effectively, but I'm wondering if it's just a lock that SPP isn't going to work too well on.
"If you are not currently on a government watch list. You are doing something wrong" - GWiens2001
Silverado wrote: Kinetic attack it with a diamond in seconds.
I'm sorry but what on earth is a Kinetic attack?? Is this a term you heard used in a youtube video, sounds like something BosnianBill would come up with, a lot of new names for old tricks seem to be floating around lately.
Just FYI, this is what he calls a particular picking method, I don't think its a widely used term by anyone who has been in locksport for the last 10 to 15 years.
I found this wording on his lock lab blog:
BosnianBill wrote:Still using your Master #3 we’ll start experimenting with some of your other picks. You’ll learn how to use your different rakes and when they might be appropriate. You’ll use your W-rake for a “kinetic attack“, the L-rake for a “rocking attack“, and your short hook or half diamond for a “zipping attack“. Your goal during this module is to complete all the attacks without drawing any blood or breaking anything. All of these raking techniques will get you into your Master Lock and you’ll be amazed at how easy it is!
He's obviously having an influence on locksport, it would be great though if he mentioned that these terms is what he calls these methods, I gotta talk to him about this stuff..
You are correct. I picked that term up from BosnianBill's website. It makes sense to me, as it is an action of kinetic force moving the pins. When I got into picking the only terms of picking methods that were give names were raking, scrubbing, and single pin I believe (MIT Guide To Lockpicking).
Since my goal in being here is to educate myself; What is the proper term for dropping the pick in all the way and giving it a good yank outward while applying some tension?
"If you are not currently on a government watch list. You are doing something wrong" - GWiens2001
Silverado wrote:You are correct. I picked that term up from BosnianBill's website. It makes sense to me, as it is an action of kinetic force moving the pins. When I got into picking the only terms of picking methods that were give names were raking, scrubbing, and single pin I believe (MIT Guide To Lockpicking).
Since my goal in being here is to educate myself; What is the proper term for dropping the pick in all the way and giving it a good yank outward while applying some tension?
I think that's called zipping, which is also a relatively new term (at least to me)
I never gave my picking techniques fancy names, but I guess its easier to say zipping than to say "I inserted my half diamond all the way, applied some tension, and pulled the pick out quickly while lifting it up just a little bit to lift the pins up" I totally understand the need for something a little shorter.
Silverado wrote: Any advice here? I don't want to gut it until I can SPP it effectively, but I'm wondering if it's just a lock that SPP isn't going to work too well on.
I get that you don't want to gut it so you don't know what's inside but I recommend taking it apart and progressively pinning it as you get better. The tolerances on these locks are really low so you probably are setting them and then overseting them because you think you didn't set it.
Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next without any loss of enthusiasm
Good point there, I could go ahead and do that so I can get a look at why I couldn't SPP it. I could be over setting them. It seems like the city rake is almost exactly the right shape, I barely move it with tension on and it pops open.
I'll take a look at the pins and see what's happening. Thanks for the advice.
"If you are not currently on a government watch list. You are doing something wrong" - GWiens2001
I'm not sure, been trying to learn more about locks so I could tell you what model it is. It was a deadbolt is about all I know about it.
Speaking of kwikset, anyone know how to get the cylinder out of a kwikset doorknob? The knob is in a spring housing with a thick, long um...actuator bar?...on the back side of it.
"If you are not currently on a government watch list. You are doing something wrong" - GWiens2001
Speaking of kwikset, anyone know how to get the cylinder out of a kwikset doorknob? The knob is in a spring housing with a thick, long um...actuator bar?...on the back side of it.
The easiest way is with the tool made for taking apart Kwikset locks. They're pretty cheap. I think I paid $7 for mine from Amazon. I'm sure it's possible without the tool, but I wouldn't want to try it. First there's a tab you have to push to release the actuator, which you do with one end of the tool.Then there are a couple of spring bars you have to pry in to get the cylinder to release from the knob, which you do with the other.
Silverado wrote:So I have a kwikset as one of my few practice locks lying around. I can rake it with a W-rake in seconds. Kinetic attack it with a diamond in seconds. And it seems to be keyed to the exact shape of my city rake because that's the quickest method I can come up with...
For the life of me, I can't SPP the bugger. It seems like none of the pins set for me. I've tried with minimal tension and gradually increased tension to get SOMETHING to pop through the shear line.
Any advice here? I don't want to gut it until I can SPP it effectively, but I'm wondering if it's just a lock that SPP isn't going to work too well on.
I can think of a couple things that might explain this.
If you're not getting any pins to set, you may be oversetting one accidentally. This is common when there is a short pin behind a long pin. When you try to lift a short pin high enough to set it, the shaft of your pick can sometimes lift up the longer pin in front, which may overset it and prevent the short pin from binding. If you locate the first binding pin, but can't set it, try using a deeper hook or a Deforest diamond. Don't move on until you're sure that pin has set.
When this happens to me, it's because the lock has been modified. If someone has added spool pins and undercut (i.e., countermilled) the chamber, SPPing is very difficult but raking and zipping are usually still possible. This doesn't seem likely in your case though, as it doesn't sound like you're getting a false set. Unless you have reason to believe the lock has been modified, I would keep working on technique.
I took it apart, and it was actually bitted in such a manner that the deeper, rear pins were meeting the sheer line at more depth than the front pins. I think I was oversetting the front few with the shaft of the pick (Southord standard hook). My Southord deep hook won't fit in any manner that I can use it, as it's just too deep. I did get it with a deforest diamond on my H&H jack knife pick set before I disassembled and examined.
Now I've switched the pins up so it's alternating 1 is shallow, 2 is deep, 3 is shallow, 4 is deep and 5 is shallow. It's more challenging now, but it is definitely helping me get better at SPP. No security pins in it, all standard.
I have a brinks with two spools, which is so much fun to pick, but I don't want to get too ahead of myself with security pins until I get better at SPP on standard pins.
Also, I'm headed to the local Re-Store this weekend to look for more toys. If that falls through, I may buy that ultimate challenge lock that comes with a pack of security pins. Will need to do a budget shuffle to see if I can afford it though.
"If you are not currently on a government watch list. You are doing something wrong" - GWiens2001
Gotta love BosnianBills use of strange terms...lol I found zipping a kwikset with just a regular hook pick to be easiest.. Heck, I use that method on BEST locks as well
