Top ten lock designs

[Squelchtone]

Western Electric 30C eight-lever payphone lever lock.

I have this lock at home, and I haven't drilled the rivets yet to play with it, but I'm wondering if half cut try out keys would work depending on how many different levers there are to the 8th power. Or is it 8 key cut positions to the number depths power. Also, are the 1st and 8th levers always the same cut by any chance?

thanks,
Squelchtone

[fjardeson]

L1 and L8 are different on the two I have. If you used a 1/2 step key it would be kind of random where the levers fell, since the lever-blocking mechanism (similar to the gear blocker in a Fichet 787) would force the lever to a valid position, probably the higher one.

Link to good pictures of 30C:
http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/wecolock/
(credit to Matt Blaze, once again). You'll like this.

[safecracker33]

I like the older stuff, so my list will be way different to most;

Hobbs Anti Violence
Chatwood composite
Mersey lock
Kromer protector
Rosengrens RKL10
Fichet GC bankers pump lock

Ross 700
Chubb 6K204
Chubb Hercules padlock
Eggers safe lock, not sure of the model name/number, but the key is like a pen knife with an opening in the blade that the levers move into.

the space in the list was for the Ratner CK lock, but then I thought of the Mersey lock, so one of the list had to go.

I was surprised to find I struggled to think of ten, if combinations had been allowed, the Chatwood 5 spindle and Rosengrens CNAB6 would have been in there

[safecracker33]

Never heard of the 30c lock before, just looked at it, clever little lock, similar principal to the Chubb Detent safe locks.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

I'd have to really think to rank them all but, without a doubt, the MIWA EC would be at the top of my list. It's a revolutionary design that was flawlessly executed. Just a real joy to use. I serviced them for years and I have only ever witnessed one issue: a key lost a magnet after it was dropped from a moving car. That was it. We had systems in place for decades that never had any service issues attributed to the cylinder or it's design.

If my boss, err my wife, lets me deviate from our ORB door hardware I will go back to it in a heart beat. Yes they make it in Duro but it's too light for her taste.

Also on the list:

BEST's SFIC - A proprietary design so successful that every manufacturer has to design their products around it.
Schlage Primus - Incredible forward and backward compatibility across multiple platforms. Very well thought out.
Abloy Classic - Nevermind the security implications, this is the Diesel engine of lock designs.

[kwoswalt99-]

Eggers safe lock, not sure of the model name/number, but the key is like a pen knife with an opening in the blade that the levers move into.

Undoubtedly a German lock. Is this lock in your possession, and do you have pics of it?

[safecracker33]

I don't have it but my ex boss supplied them with a new safe FOC just so he could get the lock for his collection, I will try to dig out some pictures, I seem to remember that it was made in Hamburg, and the lock and boltwork assembly was a bit like a mortice lock, but fitting into the side of a safe door.

[safecracker33]

Eggers safe lock, not sure of the model name/number, but the key is like a pen knife with an opening in the blade that the levers move into.

Undoubtedly a German lock. Is this lock in your possession, and do you have pics of it?

I couldn't find the main bunch of pictures I have of this lock/boltwork, but it is a long while ago (pre digital camera) so I will have them tucked away somewhere on film or slide.
I did manage to turn up a close-up of a key and levers, if someone could advise me if I am ok to post this as it is obviously safe related, if not kwosalt99 ,let me know your email and I will email it to you.

[kwoswalt99-]

I would be interested to hear why the locks on your list are on your list, ie what feature or improvement puts them in the top 10.

[safecracker33]

I would be interested to hear why the locks on your list are on your list, ie what feature or improvement puts them in the top 10.

Hobbs Anti Violence
Chatwood composite
Mersey lock
Kromer protector
Rosengrens RKL10
Fichet GC bankers pump lock

Ross 700
Chubb 6K204
Chubb Hercules padlock

In the case of my list, the top three have antipressure/antipick stumps, sometimes more than one in a single lock, and are designed to not be openable with a single drill hole position to make forced entry harder, some of these locks are best part of 100 years old and would still today be harder to pick or bypass than most modern stuff,in the case of the Hobbs lock, made by one of the great pickers of the day to be highly pick resistant. I like the angled keycuts on the kromer protector, the rkl 10 was and still is a very well designed and secure lock(even though tools are now available for it) same goes for the Australian ross 700 lock, as a modern lock I rate this quite highly, the fichet gc bankers lock with its pump key design using long push rods down the nozzle I like because it is different, chubb 6k204 because it was designed by the great Tommy Watson, in response to one of the uk banks complaining that some safe engineers were able to pick open their existing chubb vault door locks, and has some clever features including a wiper for the lever bellies as part of the lock curtain to help prevent decoding attempts. With the modern cordless power tools and cutting equipment easily available nowadays, most padlocks, no matter how huge/solid are vulnerable, so I like the way the shackle and padbar eye on the Chubb Hercules padlock offers serious protection still.
I am not the biggest fan of modern cylinder type locks, not that I don't admire some of the mechanisms for their ingenuity and pick resistance, but I think that for instance euro profile cylinders are an inherently weak design, unfortunately they now seem to be the accepted norm over here and are here to stay. What are you American fellas seeing on your door locks, is it europrofile like over here, or are you more inner and outer cylinder or turns onto deadbolts which seems a better way to do it for me, I also don't like screw in cylinder systems as I think again they are a weak design. Feel free to enlighten me, I have played with some American safes both over here in the UK and over in the US, but whenever I have been across the pond, I have been staying in hotels, so not really up on how you rate your domestic and commercial door locks. Same goes for other countries, I like the lookof the muti lever multi throw locks that some of the Russians seem to favour, but have not really had a chance to play with them, so other countries, let us know what you think of the security of your locol favourite locking systems.

[ARF-GEF]

Hobbs Anti Violence
Chatwood composite
Mersey lock
Kromer protector
Rosengrens RKL10
Fichet GC bankers pump lock

Ross 700
Chubb 6K204
Chubb Hercules padlock

That is an awesome list! <3 <3

Not a safe lock but I think we shouldn't pass the Evva MCS or the kaba Star. The MCs for the obvious reason of being currently the most pick resistant lock (Along with Abloy protec, but that mechanism is less fancy IMO). Plus it uses a unique magnetic mechanism.
Kaba star because it can have 26 pins in 8 rows at the same time, which is a LOT. Just as a side note the Kaba star can be used as a safe lock as well, but only on lower lever safes or on deposit boxes. Still very cool.

[huxleypig]

That certainly is a wonderful list. The Kromer protector had the lafette I think? Those two things in combination make for an extremely secure lock!

I would plump for the MCS from the modern group. Abloy make some wonderful locks too, the Protec 2 is definitely more secure than the Protec. None are invincible though.

Is the Mersey the Nato lock? Or do Mersey make another cool lock? I got one of these today, cool lock.

[kwoswalt99-]

That certainly is a wonderful list. The Kromer protector had the lafette I think? Those two things in combination make for an extremely secure lock!

The lafette doesn't really add any more difficulty to picking it.

[huxleypig]

That certainly is a wonderful list. The Kromer protector had the lafette I think? Those two things in combination make for an extremely secure lock!

The lafette doesn't really add any more difficulty to picking it.

Does it not? I thought it completely disengaged the turning of the key from the user, blocking any access to the keyway?

[kwoswalt99-]

That certainly is a wonderful list. The Kromer protector had the lafette I think? Those two things in combination make for an extremely secure lock!

The lafette doesn't really add any more difficulty to picking it.

Does it not? I thought it completely disengaged the turning of the key from the user, blocking any access to the keyway?

No, but some of them make it hard to fit tools into them.