Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.
by bluelight » 25 May 2016 17:53
This is my first post here, so I figured I'd make it a good one. It is the first installment of an article that I'm writing about Chinese designed locks, which is my specialty. I have only completed the introduction, so there really isn't that much specific information, but I'm working on writing the other parts. If you have suggestion for the articles, feel free to tell me. Chinese Mechanical Locks - Designs and DefeatsEverything you wanted to know about modern Chinese Locksby UrbanHawk----- Table of ContentsPreface -About the Author -Introduction -The Chinese Objective - What drives the design? -Breaking the Stereotypes -The Chinese Lock Grading System Not yet completed:Part I - Pin Tumbler MechanismsPart II - Sidebar Mechanisms utilizing PinsPart III - Sidebar Mechanisms utilizing Sliders/WafersPart IV - Advanced Sidebar MechanismsPart V - Eclectic MechanismsBefore you read:This is a work in progress. I don’t have the time to write the whole article at once, so I will post the article in parts, so not everything will be here. Everything will be subject to revision and rewriting. Please feel free to suggest topics or revisions.----- PrefaceAbout the AuthorEver since I was young, I have had an insatiable appetite for collecting, pulling apart, and researching locks. Most of them came from the dollar store, where all of the locks were produced in China. I was shocked by the poor quality of these locks - surely this couldn’t be it. With all those people in China, there must be at least a few high security lock designs. So began my quest to discover high security Chinese designed locks. After several years, I amassed a large quantity of knowledge about all sorts of locks, but the subject I knew best about are Chinese locks. Since I have never seen a thorough article written about Chinese lock designs, this is my attempt on trying to write a comprehensive article on the subject.IntroductionIt seems that Chinese made locks have a reputation for manufacturing insecure locks. Indeed this is the case for most of the locks that are designed in China and exported to other countries. Usually this is the only side of Chinese lock manufacturing that we ever see. However, there is a whole other world of locks that are manufactured exclusively for domestic consumption. China has the world’s largest population, so there are seemingly endless amounts of companies producing a great variety of different types of locks, for an ever expanding population. These locks have unique and unusual designs that are rarely seen outside of China. Some of these locks are spinoffs of other designs, others, completely original. The goal of all the manufacturers is all the same: to produce a more secure lock than the competition at a lower price. The Chinese Objective - What drives the ingenuity behind the design.Before delve deeper into the subject, it seemed strange to me at first that there were just so many designs, many of them were very cheap, yet theoretically would be very hard, or near impossible to pick. I asked myself: what drove all these designs? After several stays in China, it hit me. Due to the massive crush of competition, they have to beat the competition with a better lock, while still keeping prices low in order to stay afloat. The result is amazing - simple locks that are very secure, yet can be purchased for less than $10. Breaking the StereotypesThere are many stereotypes that are attached to many of the topics in this article. Here are just four stereotypes that will make several appearances in this article.High Security Locks- They have to be expensive
- They have to be precise
Chinese Designed Locks- They are not secure
- There is no original design in these locks
These stereotypes will be referred to later on in the article.The Chinese Lock Grading SystemChina uses a uniform lock grading system to help consumers decide what locks they should buy. In theory, this system requires lock companies to submit samples for testing by the public safety authorities (similar to UL listing) in order to be categorized into the appropriate grade. In practice, however, companies rarely do, and manufacturers always advertise their locks as being in the highest, even nonexistent category. The grading system uses a letter based system, “A” being the worst locks, “B, C” being better locks. Note that the grades don’t take into account the lock’s physical attack resistance, only manipulation resistance. There is no grading system for physical attack resistance.Official Grades: Grade AAll regular lock designs (simple pin tumbler, simple dimple locks, etc), offering minimal security (anything you wouldn’t want on any door).Pickable in less than 1 minGrade BSecure lock designs (two row dimple locks with sliders, simple sidebar based systems), offering fair security (anything you wouldn’t want on your front door)Pickable in less than 10 minGrade B+Best lock designs (free spinning, slider based designs, advanced sidebar based systems), offering the best securityPickable in 10+ minUnofficial Grades:Grade CIt seems that this category is now used for selling all slider based locks, even though it is not an official grade. It is used synonymously with Grade B+.Grade C+Used by overzealous lock manufacturers/retailers to make their lock seem better than it actually is. Sometimes a really unique design will pop up with this designationGrade DUsed by a few egotistical lock manufacturers who believe their 7 pin dimple lock is unpickable. Otherwise, a basically non existent category.
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by GWiens2001 » 25 May 2016 18:06
Welcome to LP101! Looking forward to the next parts of your article.  Gordon
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by Squelchtone » 25 May 2016 20:22
I think under Chinese Lock stereotypes you may need to add "Chinese locks are poorly made" I've never actually heard of Chinese locks not being secure, but I hear a lot of people think that Chinese goods are cheap.
If you take something like a TriCircle padlock made in China, it is actually difficult to pick because of all the mushroom security pins, but but I would say it is poorly made with sloppy tolerances adding to the difficulty of picking it because it is difficult to feel good feedback.
I haven't heard of Chinese lock mechanisms as not being original either, who's saying these things? my only issue is the Engrish instructions and the really bad packaging which has 3 different names and fonts and colors, so it's hard to figure out the lock maker and brand. if you go to dhgate or alibaba you'll see locks with "good character" and are "against universal key" , those companies really need to call their cousins in the USA and get better English descriptions.
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by bluelight » 25 May 2016 21:09
Squelchtone wrote:I think under Chinese Lock stereotypes you may need to add "Chinese locks are poorly made" I've never actually heard of Chinese locks not being secure, but I hear a lot of people think that Chinese goods are cheap.
If you take something like a TriCircle padlock made in China, it is actually difficult to pick because of all the mushroom security pins, but but I would say it is poorly made with sloppy tolerances adding to the difficulty of picking it because it is difficult to feel good feedback.
I haven't heard of Chinese lock mechanisms as not being original either, who's saying these things? my only issue is the Engrish instructions and the really bad packaging which has 3 different names and fonts and colors, so it's hard to figure out the lock maker and brand. if you go to dhgate or alibaba you'll see locks with "good character" and are "against universal key" , those companies really need to call their cousins in the USA and get better English descriptions.
Squelchtone
To me at least, it seems that the defacto term used to describe lock that are easy to pick/insecure, especially in videos, seems to be "we all know where this was made". There are "better" security locks, such as the Tri-Circle you mentioned, however, those seem to be a minority. Most of the "dollar store" locks are poor copies of well known brands, such as the laminated padlocks, the black dial combination padlocks, and off brand American locks. It seems that most of the padlocks seen here have been copied in some way or another. Most of the people I interact with (who are not lock pickers) seem to agree that most of the locks in dollar stores seem uncannily similar. The reason they don't really bother with the translation is because they really could care less, since the majority of those locks are sold to the domestic Chinese market, who can't really tell the difference between good and bad English. Most likely the packages you are referring to is from a disc detainer padlock, since they are trying to advertise "good character" (good build) and "against versatile key" (anti-bump key). Thanks for the feedback! It's always good to know what other people think, and I will take this into account when I am revising the intro.
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by kwoswalt99- » 25 May 2016 21:40
Squelchtone wrote:I haven't heard of Chinese lock mechanisms as not being original either, who's saying these things?
I say those things. Can't wait to see the rest of the article. 
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by ARF-GEF » 26 May 2016 18:44
I also dislike many Chinese locks Squelch.
I think many of us simply sees a different segment of the market. There are of course many unique designs and an 11 trillion dollar economy (nominal GDP, 2016, wikipedia) will make a lot of well made products. There were several waves of ingenious and unique Chinese lock designs sweeping though the lock-lover community too just recently.
But I don't want to talk without reasoning: Here is why I dislike them: The segment I so often see is something different. It's not aimed to be unique or clever it's aiming to be very very cheap. And they make cheap locks, but they use very bad quality materials. And there are many many more locks in the cheap low-end from china than in the ingenious end. At least in the wild here. Concrete examples I've encountered: they rust quite quickly even in environments where they shouldn't, such as normal indoor use. The springs tend to break much more often than "normal" (not fancy!) locks. I've never ever seen even a decades old lock to have a spring break. Not even when they are used on entrance doors in bigger housing complexes. But I've sure met a few from the "no name" branded chines locks.
I've seen keys break i the lock from normal usage (you can see that the key wasn't grabbed by a plier). Chinese lock, like tricicle does that from time to time. Admittedly not often, but it's still an issue. I've seen the mechanism which actuates the cam literally fall apart inside a cheap Chinese lock. Was that lock a hassle to take out... Tricicle is not a good lock in my eyes. Maybe I'm a maximalist but it is not even a decent lock even compared to low end schalges, not to metnion, Best, or kaba or gege. I've also met a lock which simply got stuck with the correct key inside. It turned a bit then it wouldn't move anywhere no matter what we did. A colleague threw it out of the trash while I wasn't there, before the dissection, so I still don't know why.
Not to mention that the supercheap raw materials means extremely low resistance to forced attack like bolt cutters or drills. And at least here criminals very rarely pick so that is a big issue.
I once broke a plug of a chines lock by dropping it. They often use some kind of zinc alloy I think, which produces this very rough "sandy" surface when you break it.
And if you disassemble it you can see how the pins are made. Often they are simply cast with just minimal refinement. True they might be hard to pick because they are so imprecise. But that is not a virtue. That is not even their goal, it's just a side effect of a subpar product. And yes most of these use the simplest possible dumbed-down design. Admittedly simplicity has it's charm, but not when it's aimed at cutting corners. On top of all that, for the all the reasons listed, they don't last long in use.
So while one can surely meet interesting Chinese locks, here during everyday lockie business or on the street you meet a ton of cheap, bad chines locks and absolutely 0 ingenious ones. The worst are "3M" locks, (which I thought to be made by the 3m company) and JKH from the top of my head. But it's tough competition since they make the same product under many names.
Plus admittedly there is a personal side: I dislike them because 1.) they flood the market with cheap goods and drive the quality lock's manufacturers out of sales. And 2. because by being cheap, thus widespread, they lover the general security of unsuspecting laypeople. 3.) they cause so much trouble when you have to work with them. Another thing I dislike with Chinese locks: maybe due to "bad translations" they are almost always misrepresenting themselves and making false illusions. Often downright false promises of being unpickable, high-security, or more mundanely: rust free etc. And Squelcie: I don't believe that they can't find someone to translate their stuff well. China does have a lot of well educated people and a huge diaspora living all around the world. I think there are more people with good English in China than the population of England though this is admittedly a guess.
Last edited by ARF-GEF on 26 May 2016 19:01, edited 3 times in total.
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by ARF-GEF » 26 May 2016 18:55
@bluelight: Welcome to the site, I too am very much looking forward to read about Chinese locks. Your article series looks very interesting and promising. As for stereotypes, specifically the ones you mentioned: Of course they are not always true: Admittedly there are "cheaper" high security locks. Are there good high security locks in the price range of Master locks? Don't think so... The best locks are not the most expensive. But I very firmly believe (and I've seen a lot of locks), that high security locks almost always need to be precisely made from high quality materials, and for that reason you have to pay a higher price. So while there might be exceptions to some of the stereotypes you mentioned: (High security locks have to be precise, Chinese locks are not secure), but based on my experience these "stereotypes" are by and large well based on reality. And no I'm not saying that there are no good chines locks. But let's not pretend it's an unjust stereotype to call most Chinese locks insecure, low quality and unoriginal design. Citing a handful of examples of good Chinese locks is not proof that these "stereotypes" are untrue. While working as a lockie I saw proof of these "stereotypes" literally every week. Apologies for the long posts. 
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by ffmurray » 2 Jun 2016 10:39
The Chinese are perfectly capable of producing high quality high tolerance stuff. They are simply smart enough to produce what most people actually want, a feeling of security and nothing more at a dirt cheap price (depends on the dirt, sometimes even cheaper). when the mechanical tolerances are so large, you get more time with your tooling and therefore a cheaper to produce product.
The problem with Chinese goods is not the Chinese, its us.
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by mh » 23 Jul 2016 15:13
A very good presentation: https://xi.hope.net/schedule.html#-chin ... -of-locks-Are video and slides available somewhere? Where can I find info on the Jiawei rotating disk lock? Didn't find it on http://www.cnjiawei.com/Cheers mh
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
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by nite0wl » 2 Aug 2016 21:05
Hey mh, the video can be found here: https://youtu.be/9iUjxXJrUcYAs for slides and details I suspect bluelight can help you out (unless he copied UrbanHawk's draft article and forgot to remove his name, then incorporated some of the feedback in this thread into UrbanHawk's talk).
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by bluelight » 3 Aug 2016 9:51
I am Urban hawk, I couldn't find a way to change my username. I came up with the handle after I created the account. ...or am I?
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by nedgreely » 9 Oct 2016 14:47
I'm new at this so forgive me if i cross any lines but let me tell you my Chinese lock story. I've only been picking several month. I do mostly pin tumbler locks. So i wanted to expand my horizons, i ordered a disk detainer lock and tool from China. I saw a youtube video by a guy BB, (don't know if i can say his name) and realized he was correct when he said that i would need to tweek the tool, sand the shaft, file down the top etc. What I didn't expect was the lock to show up in the form of a kit. So my situation is this, I have 9 disks and 8 spacers and no pictures of the lock assempled. I have pictures of Abloy locks and though they are both disk detainer locks the parts look different. Oh by the way, it's a clear training lock. So do you have any photos of these inexpensive Chinese training locks that i can use to compare so can build the lock? Then i only have to worry about building it to match the key. Impossible? Probably but its the challenge, right, thats why we do it.
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by Squelchtone » 9 Oct 2016 14:53
nedgreely wrote:I'm new at this so forgive me if i cross any lines but let me tell you my Chinese lock story. I've only been picking several month. I do mostly pin tumbler locks. So i wanted to expand my horizons, i ordered a disk detainer lock and tool from China. I saw a youtube video by a guy BB, (don't know if i can say his name) and realized he was correct when he said that i would need to tweek the tool, sand the shaft, file down the top etc. What I didn't expect was the lock to show up in the form of a kit. So my situation is this, I have 9 disks and 8 spacers and no pictures of the lock assempled. I have pictures of Abloy locks and though they are both disk detainer locks the parts look different. Oh by the way, it's a clear training lock. So do you have any photos of these inexpensive Chinese training locks that i can use to compare so can build the lock? Then i only have to worry about building it to match the key. Impossible? Probably but its the challenge, right, thats why we do it.
You can mention Barnacle Bob, his fishing and padlock assembly videos are well known.  His cousin Bosnian Bill makes good videos too  Look on ebay and amazon, some sellers have very clear gut shots of how the discs are layed out. Otherwise, like you said its a challenging puzzle, which isnt such a bad thing after all. Let us know how it works out Squelchtone

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by GWiens2001 » 9 Oct 2016 15:51
Hmm. A mechanical puzzle in a baggie without instructions or pictures. Sounds like a good time, to me! Where can I get one? Gordon
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by mh » 9 Oct 2016 15:57
GWiens2001 wrote:Hmm. A mechanical puzzle in a baggie without instructions or pictures. Sounds like a good time, to me! Where can I get one?
Aliexpress for example. I thought they did that special option just for me, but now I see that apparently everyone who orders a clear disc detainer training padlock gets the "how to assemble it" training version 
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
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