The "Bowley Lock": Canada's newest and coolest lock!

[Davis]

I have to say, while I don't understand the finer details of it completely, I like the out-of-box thinking you have put into this, and it does appear to be a design that would be fairly resistant to non-destructive entry. However, I do have a few questions about the practicability of the design.

The first thing I want to bring up, bitting increments of 0.009" leave little margin for error. For it to work well long-term, you would need keys and pins that are not only very precise, but extremely durable. You've already touched on the fact that by virtue of the pins being a significantly softer metal than the key, you will be having to deal with a measure of wear; it remains to be seen how bad the wear would be. I'm concerned that with pins and keys wearing on each other, situations may develop where the lock either binds or fails to work at all. For reference, in commercial pin tumbler lock manufacturers, the smallest increment that I'm aware of is 0.00125" by Sargent; although of course I stand to be corrected here. In your case, the wear would cause additional problems for master-keying. I don't know if you're aware, but many manufactures like Schlage (0.015" bitting increments) or Weiser (0.018" bitting increments) do not use number 1 master pins, because of the possibility of wear allowing the master pins to become caught between the shell and the plug. You need to give this adequate consideration when you think about trying to master-key your locks.

Secondly, if you're going to make a serious attempt at the commercial market, be prepared to lose a huge section of market if you cannot adapt your design to be used in rim and mortise cylinders. It would also be advantageous for it to be usable in knobs (although levers would be even better, considering the ADA and all that).

Thirdly, your design is purely mechanical. Nothing against that, but look at what new products are attacking the consumer lock market these days: electronic locks, because they can be made to offer the convenience that people love to have.

Finally, one can simply not operate your lock the way most people have come to expect that a key work in a lock. That's not necessarily good nor bad, but here's something to consider: the public wants to use what is familiar and easy to them. Some people may catch on quickly, but others may not. Some people may not be interested in learning how to operate their keys in a way that is different from nearly every other lock they know.

Anyway, I don't want to be a total wet blanket, just wanting to bring up some practical considerations. I will be interested to see what happens with the future of your lock.

Davis

[GWiens2001]

Am thinking you typed an extra 0.

Nobody makes locks with an increment of .00125" (about 1/1000"). Even Best, which has very close tolerances, use .0125", and you should not use a 1 step master pin. The shims locksmiths use are .004", and the shims made from security tags, which are so thin that I have used them to shim the shear line on an ASSA Twin Combi, are .0015" - still thicker than .00125".

Sargent uses .020" depth increments. Even Sargent LFIC cores use .020".

Gordon

[Davis]

You're right, it was an extra 0. I meant the Sargent 0.0125" system, which I've never encountered in the field, to be fair; I've only seen the chart for it inside the lid of our LAB pinning kits. And you're right, all the Sargent I've encountered has used 0.020" increments.

My point was, it's extremely ambitious to try to design a lock that has increments so much less than what other commercial manufacturers use. If he goes with 0.009" increments, I highly suspect that master keying locks to work reliably will be a very real challenge, because even a #2 master pin will be only 0.018"; and as I've already gone over, use of #1 master pins in Schlage and Weiser (0.015" and 0.018" respectively) has proven problematic. However, if the lock designer thinks he can do it, I'm happy to be proven wrong.

At any rate, sorry for the typo. Hope that explains what I was driving at a bit better.

[Davis]

Secondly, if you're going to make a serious attempt at the commercial market, be prepared to lose a huge section of market if you cannot adapt your design to be used in rim and mortise cylinders. It would also be advantageous for it to be usable in knobs (although levers would be even better, considering the ADA and all that).

Okay, I went on their website and it appears that they have rim and mortise cylinders (or at least prototypes), so I"m willing to concede this point to them. I'll still stand by my point about it being important to be usable in knobs and levers, though.

Finally, one can simply not operate your lock the way most people have come to expect that a key work in a lock. That's not necessarily good nor bad, but here's something to consider: the public wants to use what is familiar and easy to them. Some people may catch on quickly, but others may not. Some people may not be interested in learning how to operate their keys in a way that is different from nearly every other lock they know.

In the video, the speaker claims that the motion required to operate the lock becomes very easy after owning the lock for 5 minutes or so. Neither he nor I can prove or disprove each other's point, so I'm willing to let it rest. However, it is still a different motion that must be learned and remembered, and kept separate from most of the other locks the public will use.

I still find it interesting that since my first post on this thread where I asked (what I consider) very valid questions about the lock, no one is coming up with any answers.

[kwoswalt99-]

I still find it interesting that since my first post on this thread where I asked (what I consider) very valid questions about the lock, no one is coming up with any answers.

There wasn't a single in your first post.

[Bowley Lock Company]

The LockSmith,
Thanks for all your comments. Sorry i have not responded sooner. The spacing of the pins whether 0.009" in my case, 0.015" in most or 0.020" and so on has very little to do with how the key and pins with work together in the future after the lock has worn down. More importantly would be the tolerances, clearances and chamfer sizes. To that point wear may effect my lock before others because our tolerances are tighter and we will be out of tolerance sooner. There is no reason why you couldn't pin any lock in steps of 0.009" other than the manufacturer decided not to. With loose tolerances you need more space between pins to ensure that a given key bitting won't open more than one pin.

Time will tell and i have said this before we have the advantage that the pin only travels 0.070" while touching the key vs ~ 1 inch on a regular lock and key so from a distance point of view we may experience much less wear than an average lock. Fingers crossed.

To your other comments we are working to get a knob to fit this cylinder, hopefully a lever at some point although it will probably look a bit bloated.

I realize all the craze is electronic locks. We would certainly like to team up with one. Most have a mechanical back up in case your batteries run out or skynet takes over.
Ryan

[GWiens2001]

Was thinking exactly what Ryan was saying about there being very little key pin wear since the pins are not scrubbed by the peaks of the key with every insertion and removal of the key.

Am somewhat concerned with the hook of the key catching on other key/key rings in my pocket. Have three key rings in my pocket - one for my car, one for my wife's car that also has keys to both sets of parents' houses, and one for work. Already have a tough time pulling out the right key. But will hang them from my belt since they would get torn off my belt when I try getting under a dashboard of a car, would scratch the car, and other reasons.

But that said, any non-standard key will have a trade-off. Fichet's F3D key is a long beast that looks like a steel rod fell into a garbage disposal while it was running. Bilock's key is also bulky and can be jagged. The LOB TUR1 key is longer than many pockets (but looks extra cool).

As for the .009" spacing, you would need at least a two step progression if you went for master-keying. But it might make visual decoding of the key a little more difficult. Especially if there were no warding for reference. (Computers and photography can help in this respect, but is beyond the scope of this thread).

As for over-sized lever handles, U-Change uses them, too.

Still like the idea.

Gordon

[FancyPants]

Sorry if I might be parroting something somebody already said, but I haven't been checking into this often and it's pretty late so I only skimmed through the previous posts!

First things first, I'm glad to see a lock company coming out of Canada. I really like the idea and hopefully it takes off for you.

While I also think that bumping would still be possible for the reasons others have mentioned, my largest concern lies with the design of the key. I'm definitely impressed by the strength of the key, but my concern is at the very tip where there is very little material. I can't see it happening often, but due to drops or being sat on and the kind of abuse, I'm wondering if the outer prong has the possibility to be ever so slightly tweeked out of shape. I can't imagine it taking much movement at all before it is completely useless. But still, I am definitely impressed by the strength shown in the video.

Also, with the amount of surface area the locking components have to themselves with open air in the middle... what is it's susceptibility to freezing? In that case it would also be difficult to get deicer in. It's a bit out there, but a possibility. I suppose you could crank on it with that strong as hell key anyways

Somebody also asked what your vision was. If you do end up staying in a residential market, I can't see selling people on a controlled key. I don't want to go see a locksmith every time I lose a key when I can just go to the RONA down the street and pick up a ton of machine cut keys for next to nothing.

Either way, I think it's one I'll be keeping my eye out for to add to my collection when it's available...It'll be a fun one tear down and play with.

[DrDave-USA]

HI All.... I do not see any Links on this new lock, but found their UTube channel and as of today, Feb 16 2016, they have two quite informative videos posted.
Their "UTube Channel" is at: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmtZWF ... 7tImpILkdA

The "Demo Video" spends quite a bit of time stating how their new lock is / will be Bump-Proof and extremely hard to pick.... Sound like a GREAT Challenge... The guy disassembles the mortise cylinder into main pieces-parts and even shows how HARD it would be to pick and or Bump. Like most manufacturers, they seem to be thinking very "Two Dimensional".... I'd be willing to bet Marc Tobias and Toby will come up with at least two ways of 'something' to get "OPEN" very quickly... I have an idea or two myself...

Frankly, I think that this might have been somewhat of an error, so look before it gets pulled because I also think that this lock will most likely sell VERY WELL SOON, apparently the cost of manufacturing is similar to Kwikset-type deadbolts.

[mh]

UNFORTUNATELY it seems that you are a bit LATE with your post. But indeed it was an INTERESTING lock idea!

[Bowley Lock Company]

Just a quick update. We have been working with a manufacturer based in Australia which has been manufacturing parts for lock companies such as assa abloy for several decades. They reached out to us thankfully and we have now solidified pricing and are awaiting the second batch of prototypes. We will then be selling them either through kickstarter, amazon or our website shortly. We have had a ton of interest since kickstarter including a major lock brand who is currently considering adding our cylinders to there door sets. I wont say who yet until we have something inked but its pretty exciting. Anyways i wanted to let you guys know that we are going forward and hope to be selling locks in about 3 months time.

[mh]

Excellent, please keep us updated!

[Bowley Lock Company]

Hey Guys,
Just thought id let you know that we are selling locks on kickstarter and have already funded so if you are interested in a lock to play around with or use on your home here is the link.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/21 ... k-relaunch
Cheers
Ryan

[Squelchtone]

Hey Guys,
Just thought id let you know that we are selling locks on kickstarter and have already funded so if you are interested in a lock to play around with or use on your home here is the link.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/21 ... k-relaunch
Cheers
Ryan

I just Tweeted out your link. Thanks for the update!
Squelchtone

[sisk]

Oooo, they're on sale now? Cool. I've been waiting for these things to actually be available. Sadly I don't have any fun budget left this month.