day in the life of a locksmith

[Evan]

Here's what I'm doing for the next week, or two.

Tyler:

You don't have an extra "building" in your keying system so you can retire keys/cores when needed ?

Also it helps with doing the "scrambles" when you do the summer rekeys to ensure that the same key does not operate the same dorm room from one year to the next.

You would then use your down time during the rest of the year to recombinate the "retired" cores into a new reserve set if the keyway of the cores themselves are not excessively worn.

~~ Evan

[Tyler J. Thomas]

You don't have an extra "building" in your keying system so you can retire keys/cores when needed ?

This is a new master key system that is being piecemealed in. Something like 36 buildings on campus. I designed and built a master key system using multiple keyways. We rekey buildings to this new system as situations/budgets allow.

Also it helps with doing the "scrambles" when you do the summer rekeys to ensure that the same key does not operate the same dorm room from one year to the next.

Wait....what? Move around cylinders or cores to avoid keys that are unaccounted for possibly working them? No, good Lord, no. That violates every single facet of key control. No, just no.

No, I don't do that. I use KeyStone to serialize and track the inventory of all dormitory cores/keys on campus. Any key that isn't returned upon check out has it's corresponding core replaced. Key reports are generated for each dorm and issued to HD's a few weeks after the semester ends and they notify me of discrepancies as they find them. All dormitory keys are on patented systems so there is no realistic risk of unauthorized duplication.

Every door, every core, every key, and every employee who possesses a key is stored in the KeyStone database on my computer.

You would then use your down time during the rest of the year to recombinate the "retired" cores into a new reserve set if the keyway of the cores themselves are not excessively worn.

If the keys are inventoried properly and the chances of obtaining and cutting a blank are practically 0%, eg. a patented keyway, why go through all that extra work?

One dorm we have has been on Cormax for almost 5 years. Some of the rooms still have their original keys, meaning none were lost. I see no point in "scrambling" or moving the cores around for the sake of "security" if I know exactly where the keys are and aren't.

No, I don't do anything like that.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Here:

[cledry]

Wow, my weekend just got a whole lot busier!

Desperate call, need to develop a master key system, cut keys and master key 446 locks before Monday. Unknown keyway. Guarantee with CC up front for payment.

People expect miracles.

I am the only guy on call this weekend. I can only manage about 160 locks a day by my lonesome, and that is a long day. These are also old locks in unknown condition, and I have to pull the locks and re-install them.

Debating on if I should do the job, or even if I can do the job, but my share would be about $7000 for 3 days work. Hmmm???

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Wow, my weekend just got a whole lot busier!

Desperate call, need to develop a master key system, cut keys and master key 446 locks before Monday. Unknown keyway. Guarantee with CC up front for payment.

People expect miracles.

I am the only guy on call this weekend. I can only manage about 160 locks a day by my lonesome, and that is a long day. These are also old locks in unknown condition, and I have to pull the locks and re-install them.

Debating on if I should do the job, or even if I can do the job, but my share would be about $7000 for 3 days work. Hmmm???

I would if I were you. I did 250 cores, 300+ keys in 5 days. Pinning, capping, stamping, installing, the whole 9. I am exhausted and have felt dizzy all day for the last 5 days (my eyes haven't seen much besides a computer screen and a core about a foot in front of me). I didn't make anywhere near $7000 for it either. I would go through it all again for that kind of money though.

If you're able to change your deductions to 9 before it hits the next pay day, definitely do it.

[cledry]

Wow, my weekend just got a whole lot busier!

Desperate call, need to develop a master key system, cut keys and master key 446 locks before Monday. Unknown keyway. Guarantee with CC up front for payment.

People expect miracles.

I am the only guy on call this weekend. I can only manage about 160 locks a day by my lonesome, and that is a long day. These are also old locks in unknown condition, and I have to pull the locks and re-install them.

Debating on if I should do the job, or even if I can do the job, but my share would be about $7000 for 3 days work. Hmmm???

I would if I were you. I did 250 cores, 300+ keys in 5 days. Pinning, capping, stamping, installing, the whole 9. I am exhausted and have felt dizzy all day for the last 5 days (my eyes haven't seen much besides a computer screen and a core about a foot in front of me). I didn't make anywhere near $7000 for it either. I would go through it all again for that kind of money though.

If you're able to change your deductions to 9 before it hits the next pay day, definitely do it.

It is a lot easier with new hardware in the shop. I have done 700 locks in the shop in 3 days with some help. On the road it is quite a bit different. The only glitch right now is if I have at least 1000 DND Schlage E blanks at the shop and whether they will accept a $1,000,000 insurance rather than the $2,000,000 they are asking for. They even want 2,000,000 on our service vehicles.

I wish I had purchased a Silca engraver when I had the chance for a deal.

[cledry]

Well mission accomplished for the most. Fed Ex screwed me over. Paid $200 to ship keys for Saturday delivery and the keys won't arrive until Monday! So 650 keys to cut Monday.

[dll932]

I have a fairly decent collection of cut keys bought at scrap shops & secondhand hardware stores. One of these keys is an emergency key for a local hotel's obsolete system. It's cut to 999898. I get the feeling someone didn't think that system through very well.

A shop I worked for did cases of locks for a house reclamation company, all keyed alike. There were repo'd houses all over the country that worked on a key like that.

I don't want to reveal too much but that's because of a certain government agency.

We ended up rekeying so many repo'd houses when somebody bought them that we all had that repo key. Made getting in real easy.

[Evan]

Wait....what? Move around cylinders or cores to avoid keys that are unaccounted for possibly working them? No, good Lord, no. That violates every single facet of key control. No, just no.

No, I don't do that. I use KeyStone to serialize and track the inventory of all dormitory cores/keys on campus. Any key that isn't returned upon check out has it's corresponding core replaced. Key reports are generated for each dorm and issued to HD's a few weeks after the semester ends and they notify me of discrepancies as they find them. All dormitory keys are on patented systems so there is no realistic risk of unauthorized duplication.

Every door, every core, every key, and every employee who possesses a key is stored in the KeyStone database on my computer.

Tyler,

I have no doubt you can account for every key you and your lock shop have cut and issued.

The security risk in an institutional environment is the unauthorized keys which you did not create which can and do exist in the real world.

For instance, if I had collected a key, which was not properly returned I could use this pre-cut key to create a tool to allow me to access other doors in that same keying system, patented or not. Having a patented system does not provide any sort of magical protection against unauthorized keys, it just makes it slightly more complicated to produce them.

One dorm we have has been on Cormax for almost 5 years. Some of the rooms still have their original keys, meaning none were lost. I see no point in "scrambling" or moving the cores around for the sake of "security" if I know exactly where the keys are and aren't.

No, I don't do anything like that.

That is just the thing though, you can only account for the keys you have originated, to believe with 100% certainty that you are absolutely with no doubt the only source for keys at your institution is a position which will one day do more harm than good.

The longer a keying system is in use, the more likely it is that keys exist for which you have no knowledge or documentation of. That is why, particularly in institutional settings, all locks in housing units are "rekeyed" during the summer down time by scrambling the cylinders/cores to different doors or even a different building.

~~ Evan

[tpark]

That is just the thing though, you can only account for the keys you have originated, to believe with 100% certainty that you are absolutely with no doubt the only source for keys at your institution is a position which will one day do more harm than good.

The longer a keying system is in use, the more likely it is that keys exist for which you have no knowledge or documentation of. That is why, particularly in institutional settings, all locks in housing units are "rekeyed" during the summer down time by scrambling the cylinders/cores to different doors or even a different building.

~~ Evan

I totally agree, it only takes a bit of looking around on youtube for videos describing 3d printing keys for restricted distribution key systems. The existence of unauthorized keys is a real threat.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

For instance, if I had collected a key, which was not properly returned I could use this pre-cut key to create a tool to allow me to access other doors in that same keying system, patented or not. Having a patented system does not provide any sort of magical protection against unauthorized keys, it just makes it slightly more complicated to produce them.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt on the following:

• They are able to make unauthorized entry through any of the exterior doors that are secured via card access.
• They are able to continue unauthorized entry with a HD/RA present/absent.
• They are able to continue unauthorized entry with the student, the occupant, present/absent.

Ok, so giving you the benefit of the doubt for the above: Moving cores around doesn't exactly mitigate this problem if someone knows what they're doing, now does it?

If someone can be bothered to replicate a patented key, they can be bothered to decode a control key during their semester at school and understand how one is just as useful as a master key.

They can be bothered to learn to pick.

They can even be bothered to drill an access hole into the door that allows immediate entry, and some would argue far more surreptitious, via the mortise lock case itself and then patch the hole with a thin layer of wood putty or something else, paint this patch - or at least deface the paint on the door to the point that it blends in, and then come back to make quick entry with whatever tool of choice works.

They can be bothered to do a dozen other scenarios that would and could give them access.

The longer a keying system is in use, the more likely it is that keys exist for which you have no knowledge or documentation of.

Sounds like you've been reading far too many MWT and LP101 posts about "security". A system with patented keys can be maintained and serviced indefinitely if done so properly.

That is why, particularly in institutional settings, all locks in housing units are "rekeyed" during the summer down time by scrambling the cylinders/cores to different doors or even a different building.

The ol' security through obscurity! Well played!

So, just to recap, I need to thwart the possibility of someone making an unauthorized duplicate key by swapping the cores around and hoping they a) haven't progressed beyond the point of straight duplication for said key and b) don't bother checking out other locks on campus.

I'll get right on it!

[Tyler J. Thomas]

I totally agree, it only takes a bit of looking around on youtube for videos describing 3d printing keys for restricted distribution key systems. The existence of unauthorized keys is a real threat.

For keys without patent protection, perhaps. But, if you want to discuss and debate the validity of that, make a new thread. This is a thread about a "day in the life of a locksmith", not security practices.

[averagejoe]

Well mission accomplished for the most. Fed Ex screwed me over. Paid $200 to ship keys for Saturday delivery and the keys won't arrive until Monday! So 650 keys to cut Monday.

Well , I would be getting my shipping money back. Fedex is stupid expensive.

[cledry]

Well mission accomplished for the most. Fed Ex screwed me over. Paid $200 to ship keys for Saturday delivery and the keys won't arrive until Monday! So 650 keys to cut Monday.

Well <censored>, I would be getting my shipping money back. Fedex is stupid expensive.

Well, I am getting my money back but not from FedEx. Turns out that it was the fault of the warehouse people in Ohio. Our sales rep put in our order for overnight Saturday delivery but the warehouse changed it to overnight weekday delivery.

Between this job and another big job and customer walk ins I think I ended up cutting @ 750 keys on Monday & Tuesday in the shop of which 600 had to be stamped with the key number. My Numberall stamper is getting a workout. We bought the stamper in the late 1970s and it was over 20 years old at the time, still going strong!

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Well mission accomplished for the most. Fed Ex screwed me over. Paid $200 to ship keys for Saturday delivery and the keys won't arrive until Monday! So 650 keys to cut Monday.

Well <censored>, I would be getting my shipping money back. Fedex is stupid expensive.

Well, I am getting my money back but not from FedEx. Turns out that it was the fault of the warehouse people in Ohio. Our sales rep put in our order for overnight Saturday delivery but the warehouse changed it to overnight weekday delivery.

Between this job and another big job and customer walk ins I think I ended up cutting @ 750 keys on Monday & Tuesday in the shop of which 600 had to be stamped with the key number. My Numberall stamper is getting a workout. We bought the stamper in the late 1970s and it was over 20 years old at the time, still going strong!

Heh, reminds me of one of the old red BEST punches I had at a shop I used to work at. Was built in 1979 (per it's badge) and still cut through the keys like butter. Then the BEST rep came in and told me that the cutter was essentially a 4 sided die and that, more than likely, it had never been rotated. Sure enough, I took it apart and you could tell the other 3 sides were pristine.

They don't make them like they used to!