Down the path to insanity

[mseifert]

S&G Customer Support's recommendation was ..

Shaun Stewart
2016-08-03 08:02:49 Michael,
I would replace the lock or take it to another technician to review.

[femurat]

Well, that's the right approach from a manufacturer standpoint. It's not worth to risk a lockout with a lock that may be defective.
On the other hand, I was hoping in a surprising explanation... never mind.

Cheers

[mseifert]

Well, that's the right approach from a manufacturer standpoint. It's not worth to risk a lockout with a lock that may be defective.
On the other hand, I was hoping in a surprising explanation... never mind.

Cheers

I guess maybe I should have explained that the lock is not attached to a safe and I am using it for manipulation practice..

[safecracker33]

It seems like the lock is effectively set to a two number combination, probably because whoever set it went the wrong number of turns during setting, effectively moving the first wheel off the 11 it was initially set on by going an extra turn when dialling to the second number (92) and in effect setting the first two wheels both on 92 and then the final wheel being set correctly on 41 if I am remembering that right. If wheel one is locked up and the fence does indeed reach this wheel, then it has to be on a single number as far as I can see, so the only explanation I can think of is that it is then being lined up along with wheel two as that is dialled.
A good point to illustrate this is I knew a safe engineer who used to impress his new employees by manipulating open a safe lock very quickly, he got one tech to set the first number of the combination, the second tech to set the second number of the combination and he himself would set the final number of the combination before turning the change key back to lock in the new combination. He then dialled it open after a bit of jiggling to impress the safe techs that he had manipulated their numbers, when in effect all he had done when setting the 'last' number was dial four turns to a number, effectively setting all wheels on that number.
Obviously I don't have the lock in hand to look at, but hopefully this may be the reason and you can check it out yourself.
Gary

[safecracker33]

Another thought just to support this hypothesis, when numbers are close together L11 to R92 is only 19 numbers different so a lot of time people setting combinations wouldn't count the first time (after such a short amount of travel -19 numbers- as the first turn of the three times right to the second combination number) but it should be counted every time you hit the number,so they dial it as 4-4-2 rather than 4-3-2 without realising effectively making it a two number lock.
Gary

[mseifert]

It seems like the lock is effectively set to a two number combination, probably because whoever set it went the wrong number of turns during setting, effectively moving the first wheel off the 11 it was initially set on by going an extra turn when dialling to the second number (92) and in effect setting the first two wheels both on 92 and then the final wheel being set correctly on 41 if I am remembering that right. If wheel one is locked up and the fence does indeed reach this wheel, then it has to be on a single number as far as I can see, so the only explanation I can think of is that it is then being lined up along with wheel two as that is dialled.
A good point to illustrate this is I knew a safe engineer who used to impress his new employees by manipulating open a safe lock very quickly, he got one tech to set the first number of the combination, the second tech to set the second number of the combination and he himself would set the final number of the combination before turning the change key back to lock in the new combination. He then dialled it open after a bit of jiggling to impress the safe techs that he had manipulated their numbers, when in effect all he had done when setting the 'last' number was dial four turns to a number, effectively setting all wheels on that number.
Obviously I don't have the lock in hand to look at, but hopefully this may be the reason and you can check it out yourself.
Gary

I would agree with the first wheel being improperly set except .. No Matter what number you dial the #1 wheel too the lock will open ..

[femurat]

Safecracker33, even if this is not the case, your statement makes a lot of sense.

mseifert, dunno if it's already been mentioned, but is it possible that the fence is short and doesn't reach wheel #1?

Cheers

[mseifert]

Ok, I finally had to get expert Help.. Big Thanks to P.T.'s Safe & Lock.. I called him up .. meet with him and he disassembled and (the important part) reassembled the lock and it works as advertised now ..

So, here is the what the problem was, That I cant believe I missed..

Between the Torque Adjuster and Wheel #1 there should be a washer/spacer.. It was missing .. So when you turned the dial the wheel would hang on the adjuster .. He put a washer/spacer in it and it works beautifully now .. Then there was also a brief conversation about maybe the combination was improperly set .. Too many turns between numbers, but no way to prove it ..

So anyway .. I leave you with this .. This is picture from when I disassembled the lock.. and all the washer/spacer are present .. soooo.. I betting on the combo thing ..



I also talked to him about the forum and he had never heard of us, so I said he should check us out.. So you may see a new member here soon...

[mseifert]

He just called me back and told me that he thinks the Torque Adjuster was in upside down .. Allowing the figures to catch on Wheel #1..

[safecracker33]

Glad you got it sorted, also it looks like maybe the spline key might be rubbing on the back cover of the lock, you may need your spindle shortening a smidge if it is especially if you are learning manipulation as it may take away some of the feel.

[mseifert]

Glad you got it sorted, also it looks like maybe the spline key might be rubbing on the back cover of the lock, you may need your spindle shortening a smidge if it is especially if you are learning manipulation as it may take away some of the feel.

YA.. I rubbed the back over before.. I realized it wasn't hammered down all the way .. It is good now