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In terms of final quality of the product (the key) do you like the punch or the grind type of the machine better? I realize quality of both varies with price, so if we keep prive variable consistent between 2 technologies, which one gives better product?
As far as i can tell most original keys are punched, so there must be a reason like better accuracy on a slowly moving die than a fast spinning wheel... But at the same time you can have carbide cutter on the grinde, so you can cut more keys or harder alloy keys.
Some keys can not be punched. A punch (like a blue punch or red punch) is quite fast and will last a long time. But paracentric keys that have curves in the bitting area can not be punched.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
Punched keys are great and typically very accurate. It terms of overall quality, I think a punch is better as long as it's in good working order. Cutting wheels aren't exactly round, they can move, be out of alignment, etc. The punch gives you a factory spec key. Even originating with a Blitz or similar can have human issue errors.
But there's a reason locksmiths don't drive around with a van full of punches instead of a duplicator and code cutter. So from a practical perspective, mechanical cutters have the upper hand.
This is sad. I got up 2 hours ago to dry brine a brisket to get t ready for the smoker, and instead all I've been doing is playing on the forum!
ltdbjd wrote:Punched keys are great and typically very accurate. It terms of overall quality, I think a punch is better as long as it's in good working order. Cutting wheels aren't exactly round, they can move, be out of alignment, etc. The punch gives you a factory spec key. Even originating with a Blitz or similar can have human issue errors.
But there's a reason locksmiths don't drive around with a van full of punches instead of a duplicator and code cutter. So from a practical perspective, mechanical cutters have the upper hand.
This is sad. I got up 2 hours ago to dry brine a brisket to get t ready for the smoker, and instead all I've been doing is playing on the forum!
You my fried are suffering from LDD (Lock Discussion Disorder)...
GWiens2001 wrote:Some keys can not be punched. A punch (like a blue punch or red punch) is quite fast and will last a long time. But paracentric keys that have curves in the bitting area can not be punched.
Gordon
A great deal depends on the specific tool. I have a Pak-a-Punch, and it works well for Schlage keys, but is out of tolerance for cutting Best A2, but that could because I'm using third party blanks. Making keys using a punch is much faster than using a depth cutting machine. The punches require specific jigs, so you're limited to what you can cut, plus (as Gordon mentioned) they don't work with paracentric keys. I have a Framon 2 machine, and I've been happy with it. If I had to combinate and make keys for a building's worth of cores, I think the Framon would be tedious compared to a punch.
An out of round cutter doesn't matter much. You adjust for the highest part. Typically it will at least make a few revolutions before being moved to the next cut.
I would say an ITL will work quicker than a punch and produce as good a key but do so with a much wider range of keys, it is self-calibrating. You need a rotating head for keys like Medeco too.
As old as punch technology is, it seems very immature to me as an engineer. All key biddings boil down to depth, width and offset. For width variable a punch needs couple cutters to accommodate bitting width, then just offset key in 2 axis as needed. As far as paracentric keyways are concerned, all you need is the key jaws that are in the shape of the key-way to basically hug the key. Shoot, one could probably even get away with a very narrow jaws that can be offset from each-other to fit the profile of the key grooves. Seems like a very straight forward mechanical engineering project. I am surprised no one has made one yet. It's only been like what, a 100 years?
cledry wrote:An out of round cutter doesn't matter much. You adjust for the highest part. Typically it will at least make a few revolutions before being moved to the next cut.
I would say an ITL will work quicker than a punch and produce as good a key but do so with a much wider range of keys, it is self-calibrating. You need a rotating head for keys like Medeco too.
Agreed, I have a punch for quickly knocking out Lockwood keys, but my ITL950 beats it hands down when cutting multiples (all same bitting) or an entire system. Just type the bitting in and press cut. Makes it pretty quick rolling through a pinning chart, even quicker if you drive it straight from the computer link.
Can't laser style cut keys with a punch either - try punching out a Chicago key some time and youll immediately see the benefit
I'm so glad I came across this thread as I was about to start a very similar one.That being:Which machine should someone who only does locksmithing part-time buy:A The HPC Blitz or the Punch Machine?Even though,as others have correctly pointed out,paracentric keys(e.g Y1)cannot be punched,the portability of the HPC Punch Machine far outweighs it's slight limitation.But what do you guys think?
"Honest people shouldn't be denied technical information because someone might use it to commit crimes."-Bill Phillips,The Complete Book Of Locks and Locksmthing
What do you mean by part time locksmith .. How many keys do you cut in a month.. And what type ... These should all be considered when buying a cutting tool/machine.. I would think if you only cut a couple a month it may just be easier to have a local smith cut them for you..
When I finally leave this world.. Will someone please tell my wife what I have REALLY spent on locks ...
[quote=mseifert]What do you mean by part time locksmith .. How many keys do you cut in a month[/quote]
By part time I mean I do it as a hobby and will occasionally do rekeys and sometimes even make keys for wafer locks(e.g on file cabs)for family and friends.But hopefully I will be doing more rekeys(Such as for realtors)and possibly automotive key generations as well in the future and wanna be prepared.I recently purchased the Pak-A-Punch Value set which comes with all the components necessary to code cut keys for Ford 8,10 and some 5 cut(H50)locks Chrysler 7 and 8 cut locks as well as GM 6 and 10 cut locks so that I can go to a salvage yard and practice reading and cutting keys for the locks of the vehicles there,and even though I am already capable of code cutting keys for KW1 and SC1(As I have depth and space key sets for those aforementioned locks)I intend to purchase the quickchange kits for those locks for my Pak-A-Punch so that I will have the ability to cut them on site.
"Honest people shouldn't be denied technical information because someone might use it to commit crimes."-Bill Phillips,The Complete Book Of Locks and Locksmthing
I see so, you are looking to progress to more than just a Hobby .. From what I understand about the topic and what I have read here.. Sound like you may need both depending on your situation.. They each have there limitations..
When I finally leave this world.. Will someone please tell my wife what I have REALLY spent on locks ...
If you are looking to do more than a hobby, I'd go with a Blitz 1200. I have the Blue Punch for KW and SC, and they worked great for making a 1,000 or so blanks at a time with the same bitting. But for less than the cost of two punches, you can buy a fully equipped Blitz that will code cut just about every standard and automotive key. And if you're only making a few keys at a time, you don't even need a duplicator, you can always make a couple of keys on the Blitz.
I had a Pak-A-Punch before the Blue Punch, but I sold it. It was okay, but kind of a pain IMHO.
Even if you don't have a dedicated vehicle (I don't anymore), you can run the Blitz from your car battery with an inverter.
That being said, I've never used the Blitz punch. If it can do the same basic things as a regular Blitz 1200, I don't think you'd be handicapping yourself too much.
