Bottom tension not working

[Dyonzi]

I've been practicing with a cheap kwikset I bought and repinned to 2 pins. When I pick the lock with the tension bar on either of the side of the lock (on the bottom of the plug perpendicular to the pin stacks I guess) it opens. When I try and pick it with bottom tension (with th tension bar in line with the key pins so basically directly under the lock) when I set the 2 pins the lock doesn't open. I'm pretty sure I'm setting both pins because I've started to really get a feel for what setting a pin is like. Also after I felt I set the pins with bottom tension, I held the tension with my finger, removed the tension bar, and switched it to a side tension and the plug then rotated. Why isn't the plug turning with bottom tension?
Thanks for the help

[kwoswalt99-]

It is probably binding against the bottom of the cylinder.

[ltdbjd]

Hard to say without seeing exactly what you mean. Bottom tension just means you're using the lower portion of the keyway, as opposed to the top.

You could be at a funny angle so you can't get sufficient leverage, or you could be sabotaging yourself by getting the tension bar wedged in the lock (kind of like a door stop)

[Squelchtone]

Hi OP and welcome to the forum,
Im glad you called it a tension bar because I heard a few people at Defcon conference in Vegas call it that and Im wondering where this term is originating or where you found it. We dont actually call it by that name and as you are starting out we want to help you get off to a good start including calling things by well established and agreed upon names.

In the beginning most of us called it a tension wrench, some people didnt think the applied force was tension and instead thought it was torque so they called it a torque wrench or torque tool, and after much debate amongst the OGs of locksport we tossed around some other terms and the new popular term is "turning tool" as its really neither a wrench or a bar or applies any sort of tension or torque in the physics or engineering terms. I still catch myself calling it a tension wrench just because thats what everyone called it that when I started, but the name tension bar seems very recent and I'd like to trace back to where it came from and let folks know the accepted terms these days are turning tool.

Thanks,
Squelchtone

[Dyonzi]

Squelchtone thanks for the welcome and proper terminology. I'm not entirely sure where I got the term tension bar from.
(Also I sent you a couple of pm's and I don't know if you got them)

[Dyonzi]

Here are the two ways of holding the turning tool I was referring to, sorry for not specifying enough.

this way was working


and this way wasn't

[ltdbjd]

Wonder if came from the Peterson Pry Bars? I'd actually not heard that name before this post.

[Dyonzi]

These aren't actually pictures of the lock I was working on (in case you were wondering), I just figured it would be easier to get pictures off google instead of trying to take pictures of myself picking the lock

[Squelchtone]

Squelchtone thanks for the welcome and proper terminology. I'm not entirely sure where I got the term tension bar from.
(Also I sent you a couple of pm's and I don't know if you got them)

Catching up on my PMs, been partying hard at the Defcon conference in Las Vegas for the last 5 days and just got home last night. I'll reply in the hook pick thread hopefully some time tomorrow.

Thanks,
Squelchtone

[ltdbjd]

I'm not sure why, but I have a couple theories. If you're using the Peterson Pry Bar, you could be using one that's too small. If it won't catch in the wards, it can't effectively turn he plug. In essence, the end is in a funky position and instead of applying rotational force, is just pushing downwards.

I'd guess too much tension, because it's easy to apply too much with the thicker pry bar. But if you can still turn it with a different tool, that's probably not an issue,

Have you tried it on a different lock? Some locks just suck. That's why I carry s small screwdriver in my pick let. It I'm pretty confident I've picked a lock, I'll use the screwdriver in the keyway to double check before I release everything and start over.

You'll also have to experiment with what works best for you. What techniques, what tools, etc. everybody has there favorites. For example, I dislike applying tension at the top of the keyway. It's because the way I end up picking or raking, I knock the tension wrench out of place. But it's a valuable technique with locks that don't have much space in the keyway for the wrench and pick. So I play with it from time to time, but bottom tension is my go-to. You'll end up with your go-to's as you gain more experience.

[Squelchtone]

These aren't actually pictures of the lock I was working on (in case you were wondering), I just figured it would be easier to get pictures off google instead of trying to take pictures of myself picking the lock

We actually need to see pics of you holding your wrench at the bottom of the keyway. you dont need to be picking with 2 hands and try to take a pic as well, shit, you dont even need to be holding the wrench, just insert it in the position that is not working for you.

A twist flex or classic shaped wrench/turning tool will work with the handle pointing to 3 oclock or 9 oclock at the bottom of the keyway but not at 6 oclock facing straight down, thats when it gets stuck against the outer shell. The flat prybar in your stock photo is different and actually CAN work at 6 oclock without getting stuck. So are you using a flat prybar or a regular wrench that is a piece of steel with a 90 degree bend at the end of it?

Thanks
Squelchtone

[tpark]

If you use TOK torsion on Weiser/Kwikset keyways, you can work off the ward on the right side of the keyway, however with some wrenches, the keyway will be partially obscured if you use a bottom of the keyway wrench. This may lead to overlifting of pins. This might not be the problem, but it's worth looking into.

[Ian_425]

Just an assumption, but to me it sounds like he is sticking a standard tension wrench in the small space at the bottom of some locks. I tried this same thing when I started out to try and get more room to work with in the key way, but in fact, when apply tension, it would act as a lever and push the lock core upward and bind it up, making picking almost impossible.
I will post a picture of what I am talking about as soon as I have a chance.

[Ian_425]

Here is the pic. It puts leverage on the warding and lifts it.

[Dyonzi]

That's exactly what I'm talking about