How relevant is single pin picking in crimes?

[MiPo]

A big part of the lock sport is the fun of working to overcome the security measures that lock manufacturer have built into locks. For example special security pins, counter milling, nasty keyways, false gates in side bar pins, pin-in-pin designs, pins that need to be rotated, check-pins, trap pins and others high security features. I wonder how much more secure these locks are in comparison to a standard lock, like an ABUS 5-pin lock with Yale-keyway in reality. Of course I'm aware that these high-security locks are much harder to defeat. But what I mean, is how many real cases of single pin picking attacks these high security locks have withstood where other locks would have failed.

Usual methods of breaking into houses are euro-lock snapping, drilling, pulling, maybe bumping, maybe raking, but I cannot imaging that a burglar does practice SPP and use this (potential unreliable) method to break into a house. For padlocks which are not bypassable or rakeable or shimmable, I strongly believe that almost all attacks are attempts cut the shackle and not SPP.

So what's your opinion or knowledge on that? Is there any relevance of SPP beside of the locksport and locksmiths?

Or in other words, what do you think would happen if all the high-security locks were exchanged with good standard locks with similar physical anti-theft properties but much easier to pick?

[femurat]

I wonder what would happen if every lock disappeared
I'm off topic but your question made me think again about this old thought of mine.

Cheers

[Robotnik]

Or in other words, what do you think would happen if all the high-security locks were exchanged with good standard locks with similar physical anti-theft properties but much easier to pick?

Depends on exactly where the high security lock is deployed. I have high security locks on my doors; if those were suddenly replaced with basic 5 pin Schlage? Nothing would happen. I'm no more attractive target than any other house, and 90% of the homes in America exist just fine with regular big box store-caliber locks.

High value and sensitive installations are where anti-pick, key controlled, close tolerance locks are necessary. There's a reason nuclear warheads aren't secured with a Master No. 3, and banks don't use cheap Sentry safes. Once you cross a threshold of value (be it monetary, symbolic, or informational), the odds of attack by someone with the right combination of skills and motivation are increased to the point where basic pin tumbler and combo locks won't cut it.

[Silverado]

I contemplate this a lot as well. I wonder if criminals have raised the bar and gotten much smarter than the criminals I've met or passed by.
I really don't see any criminals (again, this is based on the criminals I've had experience with in my life) learning and practicing a skill that requires time, patience, and discipline.
Criminals are criminals because they're lazy, entitled, and dumb. They take things that they didn't earn and don't deserve because they don't want to put any work into acquiring things honestly.
Because of that I don't see the average thief learning anything about lockpicking when they can lick a door in, smash a window, or use bolt cutters. The average criminal isn't going to go for any structure that is obviously high security because that requires work and time.
Now that's not to say there aren't some high profile Hollywood style (I'm thinking Ocean 11) style criminals who learn how to circumvent higher and advanced security to steal priceless artifacts or something but I've never come across anyone like that.

I could see someone doing it for penetration testing, but then that's not criminal it's providing a service.

Corporate espionage or military/government operations are different in my opinion because at that point the "criminal" is completely subjective. For their corp or government they're doing their job, for the target they're a criminal. That's really high profile stuff and I guess it depends on the scenario of what you imagine.

[MiPo]

OK, I see your point with the more sensitive areas to protect - and I agree. But back to the core of my question, how much do you think is SPP relevant in real criminal activities? Or are you saying not at all, as for normal houses this type of attack is not used because of other "entry" methods and for high security areas it's made impossible due to using high-security locks?

Or in other words, what do you think would happen if all the high-security locks were exchanged with good standard locks with similar physical anti-theft properties but much easier to pick?

Depends on exactly where the high security lock is deployed. I have high security locks on my doors; if those were suddenly replaced with basic 5 pin Schlage? Nothing would happen. I'm no more attractive target than any other house, and 90% of the homes in America exist just fine with regular big box store-caliber locks.

High value and sensitive installations are where anti-pick, key controlled, close tolerance locks are necessary. There's a reason nuclear warheads aren't secured with a Master No. 3, and banks don't use cheap Sentry safes. Once you cross a threshold of value (be it monetary, symbolic, or informational), the odds of attack by someone with the right combination of skills and motivation are increased to the point where basic pin tumbler and combo locks won't cut it.

[Robotnik]

OK, I see your point with the more sensitive areas to protect - and I agree. But back to the core of my question, how much do you think is SPP relevant in real criminal activities? Or are you saying not at all, as for normal houses this type of attack is not used because of other "entry" methods and for high security areas it's made impossible due to using high-security locks?

Lockpicking is extraordinary rare in residential or small commercial crimes. Most homes and businesses have other entry points that require way less skill and time to exploit - break glass, kick in a door, shim a latch, lift a slider, etc.

As with many aspects of life, criminals and their crimes occupy a spectrum. The addict breaking your basement window to steal tools and someone covertly accessing a major company's files to steal data are both, to a technical point, committing crimes, however neither criminal would be likely to go after the other's target.

In whatever case, I would agree lockpicking rarely factors in to crimes. Even for high value targets, social engineering, unauthorized key use, privilege escalation, and other attacks are probably more likely/safer.

[ltdbjd]

I say not at all. Crimes tend to be a matter of opportunity; and the easiest target tends to be the first one hit.

I've never met or spoken with a burglar who has ever used lock picks. Picking takes time and effort to learn. Why spend the time honing your skill when you can find an unlocked door, open window, or a siding glass door you can pop open with a screwdriver? Burglars tend to be people looking for quick cash and drugs, or quick cash for drugs. They aren't a sophisticated bunch. That's why you don't see car thieves using air wedges and long reach tools; breaking the window is much easier and faster.

I have to take slight detour here ...

From my experience, getting caught because you take too much time picking a lock really isn't an issue. When I worked for a residential real estate investment company in southern CA, I took possession of at least three houses a day. Picking the front door lock. In my private vehicle, not a locksmith van. Parked in the driveway. Spent about an hour in the house photographing, documenting, changing locks, etc. In the 500 to 600 houses I took possession of in Los Angeles and Orange County, guess how many times somebody called the cops on me? Once. I had a lot of curious neighbors see me and scurry away. I've had a number ask me what I was doing. I had a bunch drive by, see what I was doing, and keep driving away. But only had the cops called once.

[billdeserthills]

I have seen several crime scenes where lock picking opened the door of the business to criminals. On those occasions I insisted that a higher security lock
was needed to stop this from happening and as far as I know none of those businesses have been burgled again. In cases where someone was able to wrench
out a mortise lock, I have always insisted that a mortise lock guard was needed and I installed one. Far as I know none of those locations has been burgled
again either...

[mhole]

I have seen several crime scenes where lock picking opened the door of the business to criminals. On those occasions I insisted that a higher security lock
was needed to stop this from happening and as far as I know none of those businesses have been burgled again. In cases where someone was able to wrench
out a mortise lock, I have always insisted that a mortise lock guard was needed and I installed one. Far as I know none of those locations has been burgled
again either...

On what do you base this? IMO unless you have stripped the lock and established there is forensic evidence of picking, I'd be inclined to attribute mysterious break ins to human error rather than picking.

[s0u1h4ck3r]

I don't think that the average burglar wil waste time on picking a lock when they could just smash a window and be on their way in a couple of minutes. There is no point in spending ten plus minutes to quietly pick a lock open when the burglary alarm wil go off anyway when they enter the house.

[Silverado]

I had several courses on criminal justice and investigation in college and they never mentioned criminals using lockpicks; I just don't think it's a common thing. I would think any criminal who is good at picking locks is going to be good enough to get in and out without leaving a trace...and they're probably not breaking in for common criminal purposes (cash to feed a drug habit, steal things to sell to feed a drug habit, steal things just because they're butt-heads).
Let's look at it the other way around; Law enforcement agents/officers rarely use lockpicking to get into doors. When they need into a structure they'll use a ram and smash the door in or a warrant to enter peacefully (or forcefully if needed). I suppose an investigator may pick a lock while the suspect isn't in the structure but that requires a warrant. When covert operations are involved I can't see them employing a local LEO for the job because they don't have the training.

It's all opinion coming from me though. I didn't do any research on lockpicking used in crimes, I just think it'd be even harder if not impossible to determine exactly what tools or techniques the perpetrator used to pick the lock to a point where you could prove that the criminal without a doubt SPP'd the lock.

[billdeserthills]

I have seen several crime scenes where lock picking opened the door of the business to criminals. On those occasions I insisted that a higher security lock
was needed to stop this from happening and as far as I know none of those businesses have been burgled again. In cases where someone was able to wrench
out a mortise lock, I have always insisted that a mortise lock guard was needed and I installed one. Far as I know none of those locations has been burgled
again either...

On what do you base this? IMO unless you have stripped the lock and established there is forensic evidence of picking, I'd be inclined to attribute mysterious break ins to human error rather than picking.

I based it on my observation that someone had picked the mortise lock until the keyway was upside down & they didn't know how to get past that point, a subject that is advanced for this forum. Several of the locks that had been picked this way actually did release the adams rite locking bolt far enough for the doors to open, and a couple did not turn far enough for the criminal to gain entry

[femurat]

I based it on my observation that someone had picked the mortise lock until the keyway was upside down & they didn't know how to get past that point, a subject that is advanced for this forum.

Helping a new member to free the plug stuck at 180 degrees is not advanced. Helping him to open a door is.
I know you know it. I just want to be sure who reads your post don't misinterpret our rules.

Back on topic, I'm surprised you found picking evidence on crime scenes. I didn't expect it.
Now I guess a criminal may try to rake a cheap lock.

Cheers

[Robotnik]

I based it on my observation that someone had picked the mortise lock until the keyway was upside down & they didn't know how to get past that point, a subject that is advanced for this forum.

Helping a new member to free the plug stuck at 180 degrees is not advanced. Helping him to open a door is.
I know you know it. I just want to be sure who reads your post don't misinterpret our rules.

Back on topic, I'm surprised you found picking evidence on crime scenes. I didn't expect it.
Now I guess a criminal may try to rake a cheap lock.

Cheers

In one of the buildings my former company managed, I came across a little-used stairwell door into a parking garage that had been picked, and the plug left turned (bitting of key precluded withdrawal of key w/o relocking). Our buildings were frequently the target of thieves, and I saw many creative ways of gaining access, but that's the only definite pick I could swear to.

[Razor2016]

There is an old adage that says "locks only keep out honest thieves", in the real world thieves aren't interested in opening a lock without causing damage, they will take the quickest, dirtiest option and not care what damage is left behind. In a world without locks you would be as safe as you are now, when was the last time a home invader tried your front or back door lock? Most doors are assumed to be locked and are treated as if they are locked, in my neighborhood doors could be left open quite safely. Locks provide us with a sense of security rather than keeping thieves out. If they want your stuff they will take it any way they can.

Single pin picking is an enjoyable pastime and makes TV and Movie stars famous but I don't think most thieves would carry around a pick kit just in case they were searched by some suspicious cop.

Ray