I shows a lock that has a non-magnetic key from the Italian company Cipierre (http://www.cipierre.com/index_eng.php). The exact mechanism was not revealed and I have not found anything about it by searching. They show these products in their catalog http://www.cipierre.com/pdf/cilindro_blindato_sistema_magnetico.pdf but I have no idea how to buy one of these for playing. I wrote an email to them but didn't get an answer yet.
Does any of you have experience with that lock system?
The voice of the person holding the camera sounds like Barry Wels, since the video is from 2014, I wonder if these ever went into production, perhaps this is why you cannot get one and they are not emailing back?
Haha, if I had written in Italian I would not have complained about a missing answer English. Thank you for checking - would be awesome to get one in the hands to play with.
Bye, Michael
femurat wrote:Interesting lock. I'll let you know if I find out something more about it.
I remember this lock. Very big key. I think their claim of 'anti-manipulation' is a ways off the mark. If the key has no magnets in it then the magnets have to be in the face of the lock instead. I have done some work with a little-known MIWA lock (not the 3800) that uses what I suspect to be a similar mechanism. So I am guessing that the bitting is achieved by having a steel pin that is ferritic versus a steel pin that is austenitic (magnetic versus non-magnetic). This will either draw a magnet to it or do nothing, giving the lock a keyspace of 2 to the 13 (12 pins around the face + 1 in the middle) (8192). That is not many and he said the advanced version can have up to 500,000 keys so maybe there is more going on than I thought. There would have to be a further 6 pins in the advanced version if it were as I suggested.
I am guessing that the key could be still be easily read and copied though. There has to be something that makes them different to each other.
Also, you might think that having the magnets in the lock would stop you from decoding it. After all, how do you know if any particular magnet needs pulling or leaving? Well that MIWA lock I mentioned earlier was very enlightening and if you know what to look for then I am certain that this lock could be decoded and opened without ever having access to the key.
That sounds very interesting. What exactly was the "little-known MIWA lock"? And do you know if this is documented somewhere with pictures or even better a video. Thank you.
huxleypig wrote:I remember this lock. Very big key. I think their claim of 'anti-manipulation' is a ways off the mark. If the key has no magnets in it then the magnets have to be in the face of the lock instead. I have done some work with a little-known MIWA lock (not the 3800) that uses what I suspect to be a similar mechanism. So I am guessing that the bitting is achieved by having a steel pin that is ferritic versus a steel pin that is austenitic (magnetic versus non-magnetic). This will either draw a magnet to it or do nothing, giving the lock a keyspace of 2 to the 13 (12 pins around the face + 1 in the middle) (8192). That is not many and he said the advanced version can have up to 500,000 keys so maybe there is more going on than I thought. There would have to be a further 6 pins in the advanced version if it were as I suggested.
I am guessing that the key could be still be easily read and copied though. There has to be something that makes them different to each other.
Also, you might think that having the magnets in the lock would stop you from decoding it. After all, how do you know if any particular magnet needs pulling or leaving? Well that MIWA lock I mentioned earlier was very enlightening and if you know what to look for then I am certain that this lock could be decoded and opened without ever having access to the key.
I do not know its name and I have asked quite a few people. The magnetic part of it works differently to the 3800 but it is here:
There are magnets in the face of the lock AND in the key, meaning that the key magnets need pushing,pulling or leaving alone (blank). If you make the key non-magnetic then you lose the ability to push, you just have pull or nothing.
Ha, yes I have gutted one of them. I know how it works and it is rather convoluted. Not as much as the 3800 but almost. There are some pins in the face and they are magnets that either need pushing or pulling (and can be N or S). There is also just a metal pin, which would require pulling (N or S, doesn't matter) and I see that as a blank because anything magnetic in the key will work.
When you gut it things become a real PITA. To re-assemble requires a bespoke magnetic rig on the outside of the face of the lock; the key will not work because the pins that require pushing get thrown out the lock by the pushy key magnet. You actually have to reverse the polarity so that the 'push' pin actually gets attracted to the face and so stays there when you try to put it back together. It's very annoying.
English.
