"Never need a locksmith again"

[somenewguy]

http://www.yankodesign.com/2015/08/27/never-need-a-locksmith-again/

This is just a design concept and probably will never make it in to production. I see a number of problems with it, but the pictures are nice

[GWiens2001]

I contributed in their fund raising, and am supposed to get a padlock (or two, I'd have to check) from them in the near future. Think it was October or November when it is due.

Gordon

[somenewguy]

Oh! I didn't know that this was actually productized- I thought it was another one of those 'concepts' that people put out to showcase their design skills.

It took me a bit of googling, but found their Indiegogo campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ovio ... =hootsuite

[kwoswalt99-]

What problems do you see with it?

[somenewguy]

Why isn't the padlock+deadbolt the most popular option? You get four keys with that one and it's still $85 (same as 2 padlocks). Only 3 of 100 are claimed. The 2 padlock offer is the same price but you only get 2 keys.

The production schedule suggests the padlocks are being worked on first so maybe people are concerned that the deadbolts will take longer to arrive.

On the other hand, maybe it's a typo because the "Two Ovio Deadbolts - Early Bird" says it only comes with one deadbolt, which suggests they aren't very precise in their descriptions:
"$85 USD + Shipping
Two OVIO Deadbolt - Early Bird
Get Two For Your Rooms Earlier & Cheaper. This package includes two OVIO Keys and one OVIO Deadbolts. Compared to Original M.S.R.P $138, You get 38% Off. Great Deal.
20 out of 200 claimed
Ships Worldwide"

[GWiens2001]

I checked my back emails, and I will be getting one deadbolt and one padlock. I ordered them at separate times. They have finalized packaging, and are currently doing quality testing, production, and some tooling, from what I remember.

Their descriptions used to be worse. They have fixed some typos, misspellings and other errors.

Gordon

[somenewguy]

What problems do you see with it?

1) There are only 4 bitting locations. I can't quite tell how many positions (analagous to 'cut depths') are available at each location; maybe one of their videos can be slowed down and you can see how many pin/holes are available. They don't make it clear what the key space is for the system

2) It seems that you can quickly look at the key and determine the bitting (by this I mean it is even easier than with existing, common types of keys)

3) they advertise "one key, many locks". That appears to be true in three cases: (A) When all locks are keyed alike (ok, that's fair, but no better than existing solutions. I guess it's an advantage that you can make as many duplicates as you want without paying someone to cut them for you. (B) Masterkeying, which per their video demonstration, means leaving one or more bittings uncombinated (with the associated reduction in keyspace) and (C) if you are willing to carry one key and reprogram it every time you need to open a different lock, which is not practical for everyday use in my opinion

4) There's no indication of how much the keys cost but they've gotta be more expensive than most traditional common keys and even some less-common keys like tubular, Medeco, etc

5) There's little shown about the internal mechanics; I wonder if a force attack (similar to what we saw on SmartKey) could be developed which exploits a mechanical weakness in the mechanism

[somenewguy]

I checked my back emails, and I will be getting one deadbolt and one padlock. I ordered them at separate times. They have finalized packaging, and are currently doing quality testing, production, and some tooling, from what I remember.

Their descriptions used to be worse. They have fixed some typos, misspellings and other errors.

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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GWiens2001
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Do you have prior experience with IndieGoGo? I never have used it. If the company decides not to go into production, or never gets their 'stuff' together, do you just lose the money?

[GWiens2001]

Do you have prior experience with IndieGoGo? I never have used it. If the company decides not to go into production, or never gets their 'stuff' together, do you just lose the money?

That is a risk with any investment in something that has yet to be produced. Not that I consider this an investment - just wanted another type of lock for the collection.

No, I have no prior experience with IndieGoGo. But same as GoFundMe, or any other places where you put up money for an entity to manufacture something, whether it be a lock or a 3D printer.

Master keying - yes, it looks like you would have to change your key, which would be cumbersome to say the least. They also state plans to offer different combination wheels for master keying, and for changing the number of wheels in the lock.

Bitting positions - the pictures/drawings on their site show pins coming from three different angles, so that would work out to 12 bitting positions.

Visual decoding - yep, I agree.

Key cost - the cost of master keys (that can be changed) would be much higher than a simple stamped/milled key blank. They talk of user keys, which sound from their descriptions as being like the steering wheel locks that have dimples on three sides. Don't know about the cost of them.

Gordon

[somenewguy]

Did you get these?

[GWiens2001]

Did you get these?

Yep.



Here is a post on the PairLock on the padlock version.

Gordon

[Eazy123]

That's a pretty interesting concept. I ordered the padlock just for the weirdness/take it apart and play with it factor. The door and deadbolt I wouldn't use to lock up my home, though.

[FancyPants]

Even with the fairly obvious security problems with this lock, it's very shiny, and definitely something I'll be getting for my own lock collection. I can't help but to think though, did they have to make the numbers on the key SO LARGE?

[Ralph_Goodman]

Even with the fairly obvious security problems with this lock, it's very shiny, and definitely something I'll be getting for my own lock collection. I can't help but to think though, did they have to make the numbers on the key SO LARGE?

That is always the rub with convenience based consumer products. Notice the conceit of the lock is "Never Need A Locksmith Again".

It appears that you can always make another key fit the same lock, and rekey the lock itself very easily.

But if you ever take away the skill needed to understand a product, you make the gate keepers unnecessary. With many products this is a plus, but when it comes to security, you are now making it easier for a criminal to overcome your locks because there is almost nothing they need to research or practice.

There is nothing inherently wrong with an intuitive product, but intuitive security does not seem to offer much security.

[tpark]

Even with the fairly obvious security problems with this lock, it's very shiny, and definitely something I'll be getting for my own lock collection. I can't help but to think though, did they have to make the numbers on the key SO LARGE?

That is always the rub with convenience based consumer products. Notice the conceit of the lock is "Never Need A Locksmith Again".

It appears that you can always make another key fit the same lock, and rekey the lock itself very easily.

But if you ever take away the skill needed to understand a product, you make the gate keepers unnecessary. With many products this is a plus, but when it comes to security, you are now making it easier for a criminal to overcome your locks because there is almost nothing they need to research or practice.

There is nothing inherently wrong with an intuitive product, but intuitive security does not seem to offer much security.

Yes, it's counter to the idea of security in my opinion. If the keys can be customer recoded, it's almost like every lock comes with a free pick! I think it might be better to use a standard lock, or if you're worried about picking/bumping, key duplication, some kind of high security lock.