Your experiences with different duplicators.

[tpark]

There are may different key duplicators out there, and I'm curious about your experience with these machines.
Are some brands better than others? Is the premium paid for higher end machines worth it? When a machine breaks, how good is the manufacturer about service?
I'm hoping that any of the better brands would cut accurately and be able to clamp up most keys.
I'm mostly interested in the mid-range semi-automatic machines like the trace-a-key or the Silca Speed 044, or the Framon Express.

I also note that Wenxing makes duplicators that are much less expensive than other brands - are machines like the Levermatic a worthwhile purchase?

The opinions of seasoned locksmiths is far more valuable than the advertising copy of people selling the machine.

[RedE]

There are may different key duplicators out there, and I'm curious about your experience with these machines.
Are some brands better than others? Is the premium paid for higher end machines worth it? When a machine breaks, how good is the manufacturer about service?
I'm hoping that any of the better brands would cut accurately and be able to clamp up most keys.
I'm mostly interested in the mid-range semi-automatic machines like the trace-a-key or the Silca Speed 044, or the Framon Express.

I also note that Wenxing makes duplicators that are much less expensive than other brands - are machines like the Levermatic a worthwhile purchase?

The opinions of seasoned locksmiths is far more valuable than the advertising copy of people selling the machine.

Best key duplicator I've used is hands down the Silca Bravo III. The older Bravo II models are also very good, just slightly less ergonomic to use. The ilco semi-auto 044 can also cut keys very well, just not at the speed that the Bravos can. Their only other deficiency it has is the 90 degree cutting wheel, which is incompatible with a Sargent system pinned to MACS, whereas the Bravos are ok because they have an 80 degree wheel (I think). The older ilcos had jaws that didn't hold keys as well, but their newer super jaws are available for some machines as an upgrade. Can't relate to the speed 044 that replaced the 044hd.

There's other midrange duplicators out there like the Framon Express, though I can't relate to any of them. One I hear of here somewhat frequently is the HPC speedex line. Some people on the forum really like theirs while others don't.

Anyway, what ever you get, I'd make sure it has 4 way jaws. My first machine was an old Curtis 2, and the old single sided jaws were absolutely useless in keeping keys upright. Not even shims could solve the issue completely.

Oh and concerning servicing, my Framon 2 has been sent in before and their support department was excellent!

[cledry]

Seconded on the Silca Bravo III and to a lesser extent the Silca Bravo II, best machines I have ever used in 30 + years. Spend for this if it is your business, you won't be sorry.

For a mid priced machine I would choose a Rytan R200. One machine I would steer clear of is the HPC Speedex. Lousy precision and jaws IMO.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Seconded on the Silca Bravo III and to a lesser extent the Silca Bravo II, best machines I have ever used in 30 + years. Spend for this if it is your business, you won't be sorry.

For a mid priced machine I would choose a Rytan R200. One machine I would steer clear of is the HPC Speedex. Lousy precision and jaws IMO.

I've got a Rytan R200; no complaints.

[tpark]

Thanks for the info, it looks like the Silca Bravo III is a recommended machine, and also the Rytan machine. I'll go check those out!

--Ted

[Silverado]

My specialty is in antique/archaic duplicators that I could find for cheap on Craigslist. I have two Ilco duplicators, one is 024 which I haven't actually used yet but it runs well. The other is a wee-tiny Ilco (which I forget the model number) that has always done what I wanted it to do with Schlage and Kwikset keys (that is all I've cut on it so far) with no issue.

[jeffmoss26]

I first learned on the Ilco KD50C machines. Semi automatic, easy to use, and run pretty well. The hardware store has since switched to the Hy-Ko promatic 100 which has manual and automatic operation, a vacuum attachment built in, etc. It's a very nice machine. My personal machine is an old Cole 3K that I paid 40 bucks for. It's nothing special, would like to someday upgrade to an Ilco or HPC duplicator.
My friend Bob Dix has just about every machine you could imagine in his shop and has let me use a few of them. I really like the HPC Speedex.

[tpark]

Some of those old duplicators are kind of cool - I've got an old Cole National one that works great for keys that fit in it and can be clamped in it's vise. It would be interesting to know how many keys it has cut.

[thecrazylockkid]

I have a Wenxing W100A2 and a Wenxing 333L. Super happy with both machines. They have cut over 100 keys! They're quite accurate and precise! Just ensure that you calibrate them every now and again and every time you replace your cutters. Very good and reliable, and an excellent buy for the price!

[cledry]

I have a Wenxing W100A2 and a Wenxing 333L. Super happy with both machines. They have cut over 100 keys! They're quite accurate and precise! Just ensure that you calibrate them every now and again and every time you replace your cutters. Very good and reliable, and an excellent buy for the price!

I have never used either machine, but the number of keys cut is quite relative to ones experiences with a particular machine.

Just in our shop we go through hundreds of keys each day, no exaggeration. Occasionally we go through a few thousand in a day. Not including keys cut in our service vehicles. We run 2 Bravo III machines and have a back up Bravo II, just in case. Just in case has never happened.

The only downside to the Bravo machines is that the jaws (which are the best of any machine IMO) tend to collect shavings in the jaw because of the multiple tip stop options, and in the cutter guard. As long as you routinely clean these out though there is no real fault I can find. They are a bit expensive and they aren't very compact.

[mastersmith]

I have a Wenxing W100A2 and a Wenxing 333L. Super happy with both machines. They have cut over 100 keys! They're quite accurate and precise! Just ensure that you calibrate them every now and again and every time you replace your cutters. Very good and reliable, and an excellent buy for the price!

You should not have to "calibrate" your machine at 100 keys. Something is not right with that picture. I have been a lockie for over 4 decades, Bravo is the best duplicator I have used. I have had terrific luck with Rytan (which is my portable machine currently) and Ilco which I grew up on and own a couple of. I don't like Curtis (noisy, prone to breakage) or HPC (which seem to be set up for left handers). I have a Foley set up for flat steel and it is up to that task, though I don't do much along those lines these days. My favorite is my Ilco Minuteman for making bit keys. It's been around a lot longer than me and still cranks right along!

[thecrazylockkid]

I have a Wenxing W100A2 and a Wenxing 333L. Super happy with both machines. They have cut over 100 keys! They're quite accurate and precise! Just ensure that you calibrate them every now and again and every time you replace your cutters. Very good and reliable, and an excellent buy for the price!

You should not have to "calibrate" your machine at 100 keys. Something is not right with that picture. I have been a lockie for over 4 decades, Bravo is the best duplicator I have used. I have had terrific luck with Rytan (which is my portable machine currently) and Ilco which I grew up on and own a couple of. I don't like Curtis (noisy, prone to breakage) or HPC (which seem to be set up for left handers). I have a Foley set up for flat steel and it is up to that task, though I don't do much along those lines these days. My favorite is my Ilco Minuteman for making bit keys. It's been around a lot longer than me and still cranks right along!

True, just that when I first got it, I goofed something up in the middle that threw off the calibration. After fixing this problem, I haven't had any problems since! My W100A2 is still cutting 11 or 12 generations of an original Sargent LA key with no problems. Haven't changed the cutter or needed to calibrate my machine for a bit over two years, and the keys are still spot on. I do, however check the keys periodically using a micrometer to check for accuracy and precision, and I still haven't had any issues. Thanks for commenting though!

[stratmando]

I have a Blitz, don't see it mentioned, What is Good or bad about them? They also cut by code, and decode, plus Medeco, and Safety Deposit Keys?

[GWiens2001]

I have a Blitz, don't see it mentioned, What is Good or bad about them? They also cut by code, and decode, plus Medeco, and Safety Deposit Keys?

The Blitz is not a duplicator. It is a code cutter. That is why it was not mentioned in this duplicators thread.

Gordon

[stratmando]

I have a Blitz, don't see it mentioned, What is Good or bad about them? They also cut by code, and decode, plus Medeco, and Safety Deposit Keys?

The Blitz is not a duplicator. It is a code cutter. That is why it was not mentioned in this duplicators thread.

Gordon

Ah, got it, It will Duplicate, I have a Hudson 598B seems to work OK, and has a Hand crank, so no power is Required. Also a few little machines, Not worth mentioning but are small, and work OK