Noob picking a Medeco M3? Confirmation needed, plz help!

[greengrowlocks]

I have a question regarding picking a medeco m3 that I was hoping a more experienced person than me could confirm what I ask below.

I have a very strong interest in picking a medeco m3. I have just watched the DEFCON: Open in 30 seconds" presentation on youtube. It is a long winded video but the main exploit they seem to have found is that you can cut a simulated key ( 2 dimensional) out of a credit card and depress the slider with a paperclip, thus opening the lock. I have no interest in making a simulated key (no fun in that to me), I just want to pick it. So what I gathered from the video is that by using the paper clip bypass the pins with no longer need to be rotated thus making it a normal pin tumbler with security pins.

My question is that if I use their paperclip technique the M3 will just pick like a normal pin tumbler with security pins?

I have only been picking for a 3 weeks so maybe this is ambitious or maybe not accurate at all. Also I only pick locks I own and have amounted a small collection already. I have opened titaliums, abus dimple locks, and others locks with security pins. I have three medecos and would love to be able to open any of them.

Thanks.
GGL

[Squelchtone]

I have a question regarding picking a medeco m3 that I was hoping a more experienced person than me could confirm what I ask below.

I have a very strong interest in picking a medeco m3. I have just watched the DEFCON: Open in 30 seconds" presentation on youtube. It is a long winded video but the main exploit they seem to have found is that you can cut a simulated key ( 2 dimensional) out of a credit card and depress the slider with a paperclip, thus opening the lock. I have no interest in making a simulated key (no fun in that to me), I just want to pick it. So what I gathered from the video is that by using the paper clip bypass the pins with no longer need to be rotated thus making it a normal pin tumbler with security pins.

My question is that if I use their paperclip technique the M3 will just pick like a normal pin tumbler with security pins?

I have only been picking for a 3 weeks so maybe this is ambitious or maybe not accurate at all. Also I only pick locks I own and have amounted a small collection already. I have opened titaliums, abus dimple locks, and others locks with security pins. I have three medecos and would love to be able to open any of them.

Thanks.
GGL

The paper clip does not bypass the need to rotate the pins. The slider is just one of 3 steps in opening the lock, step 1 is pick the lock to shearline, step 2 is rotate pins to correct angles, step 3 is push in the slider with a paperclip. You can do these steps in any order you wish.

Also, This is not a question for the total lockpicking general info beginner area, so I'm moving it to the Locks area.

Show us a pic of your 3 Medeco locks with your member name next to them. You''ll find from reading other posts, that anyone with a 1st post asking how to pick a high security lock is gonna raise eye brows around here, especially since you said you have a very strong interest in a very specific lock model.

Squelchtone
Forum Admin

[greengrowlocks]

Sorry, here is the images you requested and a few others.









Assa Twin? IDK


Thanks for the quick reply. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the presentation or book they published but I'm confused then on how they opened the m3 with a 2D credit card cut to the bidding? I'm assuming then they somehow rotated the pins after the plastic simulated key was in place? After setting the pins does a "groove grabber" make it a lot easier to to rotate or should I just use a Peterson gem?

Thanks,
Noob poster GGL

[GWiens2001]

You have some nice stuff in your collection.

Have tried the plastic key trick. Only succeeded when I cut the bitting to the spacing of the outside of the key. That forces the rotation.

Gordon

[greengrowlocks]

Thank you Gordon!

In your experience with picking the M3 does a "groove grabber" tool make it much easier to rotate the pins after setting? (Assuming they are the older style pins) or does a normal pick work just as well?

Thanks again,
GGL

[Squelchtone]

I dont see any M3 model Medecos in your pics only Medeco Original and Medeco Biaxial. No need for paperclip with those 2 in your 1st pic. Jkthecjer's website shows off his Medecoder (I believe I came up with that name or look for his posts here.

Best way to learn Medeco is to take one apart, insert the key into the plug to watch the pins rotate, you'll have a lot of aha! moments doing that. Then pin up the locl with only 1 pin stack then 2 then 3 and get better at both picking to shear since the tolerances are really good and getting a feel for rotating the pins with a groove grabber or with a hald diamond or hook pick.

And yes, Im familiar with the talk and book, I know the authors, and I was one of the folks asked to peer review the book before it came out.

Glad you shared all the pics, its often hard to tell if someone is brand new to picking and gung ho about opening a Medeco after they pop their 1st Kwikset a couple times vs someone who actually has some experience and knows what theyre doing.

[greengrowlocks]

Yeah, your are correct I don't have the M3. I have been waiting to pull the trigger on buying one (going rate on ebay is $85). After your advice though I think I'll just be pinning a stack at a time with the Medecos I own already.

I misunderstood parts of the presentation and thanks for educating me on the mechanics. As you know I'm new here and most my limited knowledge is from youtube videos but I'll be sure to check out older posts. Few tools are as perfectly named as that as Medecoder, well done!

Thanks,
GGL

[G-lock]

Looks like you started out as a high security lock collector & then started picking locks? Sweet looking collection.
Im still fairly new to picking locks but when i first started picking i caught on quickly like it seems your doing. I quickly picked my way through all my lower security locks & being a collector before a picker i had quite a few of them (about 50) So i decided to try picking my s&g 833 with a 6 pin medeco & a assa twin fully pinned with sidebar. I went from popping locks in seconds to completely nothing, not 1 open for days. I had so much trouble that i made a post asking if it was normal . I have come to learn that theres quite a few locks between the medecos (that i still cant open) & the abus locks (that are kind of easy now) that are quite hard to pick. Some of them very hard!
Sorry if i got off track here. I dont mean to discourage you or anything like that. But if the medecos seem kind of hard to pick its not just you. I wish you luck with your challenge but if you are unsuccessful there are a few stepping stones to hone your skills.

[DangerDane]

Sorry for the OT, but what is that Fichet lock?. and what Abloy is that 655 thats laying next to the other abloy padlock?

[G-lock]

Sorry for the OT, but what is that Fichet lock?. and what Abloy is that 655 thats laying next to the other abloy padlock?

The fichet is a very unique lock with a 3d key. The locking mechanism inside the lock itself is also very unique. You should google or youtube it if youve never seen one. As for the abloy 655 it is a government issue padlock. Theres also a abloy 656.

[Robotnik]

In that last photo, is the cylinder a mogul? Believe Southern Steel does re-badge some Assa Twin mogul cylinders for corrections use. Very cool.

[greengrowlocks]

Thanks everyone, my original question was answered ( I misunderstood the Defcon16 presentation in thinking that the paperclip trick bypassed both the sidebar and the slider.) After taking it apart it does make much more sense to me now.

Looks like you started out as a high security lock collector & then started picking locks?

A few months ago a family friend (general contractor) gave me two 5 gallon buckets of locks he had no use for. Shortly after that I ordered my first pick set and have been addicted to picking and acquiring unique locks. Most days I'll pick until my hand hurts. I've opened most the lower security locks hanging on the wood board with exception to the disc detainers, M15 and a couple others. I admit I'm not that good, the most challenging locks I opened have been the Titaliums and Abus EC75 dimple lock but those still take me a long time to open. I realized I'm memorizing the binding orders on my individual locks so I recently got 6 American 1100s, 6 Master LockOuts and 4 Titaliums for practice. I wrongly assumed that Medeco would be the next logical step up but even with two pins I haven't been able to open. I'm thinking picking the Primus or Mul-T-Lock Junior might be more attainable. If you have suggestions on locks in terms of difficulty that should be picked after the Titalium I would be grateful to hear them.

Sorry for the OT, but what is that Fichet lock?. and what Abloy is that 655 thats laying next to the other abloy padlock?

The Fichet I picked up on ebay. I believe it's a Fichet 484 wafer lock that was made in the 1970s from France. The big Abloy is the 362 and the smaller one is a government Abloy 655. Here are some more pictures of those if your interested. I'm pretty sure the F3D was the model that came after this design and the key to the F3D looks like nothing I've ever seen.

In that last photo, is the cylinder a mogul? Believe Southern Steel does re-badge some Assa Twin mogul cylinders for corrections use. Very cool.

I was very interested in getting a lock from a correctional facility. Yeah its a mogul from Southern Steel. The seller didn't have much information on it and I think its an Assa Twin but I was hoping someone could tell me exactly what model cause i'm not sure. The key says "EC 39" and " C5" on the back. Here are some better pictures if someone can identify.

[GWiens2001]

The Fichet 486 uses what they call a 'pivoting wafer'. Ingersoll calls the same thing a lever.

Think the 666 and 690 are their wafer/sidebar locks. After the 486, they went to the 787 versions, then the F3D.

Could be off on those, as am not an expert on French locks. But that should be about right.

Gordon

[G-lock]

I recently got 6 American 1100s, 6 Master LockOuts and 4 Titaliums for practice. I wrongly assumed that Medeco would be the next logical step up but even with two pins I haven't been able to open. I'm thinking picking the Primus or Mul-T-Lock Junior might be more attainable. If you have suggestions on locks in terms of difficulty that should be picked after the Titalium I would be grateful to hear them]

Im sure everyone's learning curve is different but in my opinion once you get abus locks down you will know how to defeat regular spool pins. The American padlocks you got would be my next step. Im not sure how those 1100s are pinned but American is known for having serrated pins (both my American 5200s have all serrated key pins & driver pins)& they can be tricky if youve only delt with standard & spool pins. From there i might pick up a stanley 828145 padlock there cheap. But with the counter milling in the plug & special pins that hang up on them the feel is different. Its not to hard of a pick but definitely different. Going on advice from another member i gave a sargent mortise lock a try & to my surprise it took me a long time to pick it with all standard pins. I did not know it till then but all the other brands of locks that i had picked (Abus, stanley, American, Schlage, brinks) did not have tight tolerances. The sargent really opened my eyes on what a difference tighter tolerances can make & its the 1st lock that i had to use heavy tension to open. I have picked 2 mul t locks which can be tricky (i have one that i cant seem to get). Theres a member here (jimu57) that sells a assa practice lock & pinning kit for a good price. This lock is my current Kryptonite. Its just 6 pins no sidebar but it has tight tolerances, the plug & the housing are both milled to catch assa spool pins perfectly & its loaded with them. Ive picked it with 4 pins but ive been at it for 3 days & still cant pick it with 5 pins i cant recomend this lock enough for a new picker that is going through locks quickly. It stopped me cold! Then i can always just rekey it when i get it picked. I have a schlage everest primus kik cylinder & i cant pick it. i dont even know how to get at the side bar pins. I can pick the regular pins but all 5 side bar pins need to be lifted & rotated (simular to a medeco)for now its beyond me. Im sure someone is going to read this & have a completely different opinion but this was my learning path. Every picker has there own unique style so some of these may be easier or harder for you.

[Mudman]

I have no advice, but wanted to say you have an awesome collection!