Got a question about key machines? not sure what to buy? need a user manual? have some tips for keeping one running well or need help cutting or programming keys? Post here!
by jimu57 » 26 Jan 2017 20:44
Recently bought a used Framon 2 from a local locksmith. Had the book, 2 cutters and 4 spacing blocks. He also threw in a cutter and spacing block for cutting Medeco. Had to clean it, lubricate, and adjust. Had never touched one before. Hard to believe how simple and easy. Already cut several Schlage, Yale, and some oddballs. Recut a couple of ASSA's that were out of spec. Its an amazing tool.
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by Jremington401 » 27 Jan 2017 0:51
It's so weird so many people seem to keep coming across this machine I found one on Craigslist that needed tlc for $50 with one cutting blade one spacing block and no book. Spent about 6 hours refurbishing it, bought the book and it works great now. Definitely a nice piece to add to the collection.
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by jimu57 » 27 Jan 2017 4:50
I came across 2 within a couple of days. Mine was quite a bit more than what you paid but still a good deal considering what the guy gave me. Now I need to find one like yours!
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by billdeserthills » 27 Jan 2017 7:26
Funny that you say he 'threw in' a medeco spacing block and cutter that originally came with the Framon #2, when he bought it
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by jimu57 » 27 Jan 2017 7:50
I didnt know that. The other one that I looked at did not have the cutter and spacing block for Medeco. I also saw that Medeco sells that as seperate items. I didnt look at what comes with a new one. Of well. I'm satisfied. Thanks fir the info.
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by thecrazylockkid » 23 Mar 2017 23:43
Nice! Too bad I don't see many good offers on quality key machines around where I live... But I have been wanting a Framon 2 as well for a while now. 
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by jimu57 » 24 Mar 2017 5:51
thecrazylockkid wrote:Nice! Too bad I don't see many good offers on quality key machines around where I live... But I have been wanting a Framon 2 as well for a while now. 
I may know of one. He wants $850. Shipping could be up to $50 or so. I'll email him. Jim
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by RedE » 24 Mar 2017 6:32
jimu57 wrote:thecrazylockkid wrote:Nice! Too bad I don't see many good offers on quality key machines around where I live... But I have been wanting a Framon 2 as well for a while now. 
I may know of one. He wants $850. Shipping could be up to $50 or so. I'll email him. Jim
Yeah I'll bet shipping to Canada will cost a pile of money. The machines do pop up from time to time. There was a Framon for sale in Montréal this past winter for $350 CDN ($270 US).
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by jimu57 » 24 Mar 2017 6:46
I bought mine from a local locksmith for $800. No shipping. He gave me some extra goodies. Plus he has tons of old inventory that he sells to me cheap. Gave me a big handful of 4" commercial strikes. Gave me a 1000 lb maglock made in China but works great. He has a pallet of those and wants to sell them. He's trying to get me to get licensed as a locksmith.
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by demux » 19 May 2017 9:51
So, it looks like this thread has been quiet for a while, but I'll re-open it as it seems like an appropriate place to ask this question: If you've been following one of my other threads ( http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic ... 42&t=64000), I too have recently acquired a Framon #2. However, being used, it came lacking many of the original parts. Basically no belt, only one cutter, and only one spacing block. My intent is to mainly use this for cutting SFIC keys, so I've already decided it's worth the money to me to pick up the IC vice. As others have suggested on here, I'm probably going to get that from Hawley. I also need a belt, but I can get one of those from my local industrial supply house for about half of what Hawley sells them for (yes, it's not the official Framon part, but it's the same thing and will work). So, my question is this. What other parts should I get? In other words, what parts add enough convenience to the operation of machine that they are worth the money to pick up? The code book? Being a hobbyist, I tend to work with a fairly small subset of key systems, and most of the space/depth info for those can be found online. An additional cutter or two? If so, which ones? As a couple people pointed out on that original thread, the basic one will be fine for most things, and I can always dial on the additional width manually when cutting SFIC keys. An additional spacing block or two? If so, which ones? The #1 block looks like it doesn't do SFIC, so if anyone knows which block does SFIC spacing, that's one I'd seriously consider. Then again, SFIC spacing is nice and even and so easy to just dial manually with the micrometer. Which block or blocks covers other common residential/commercial key systems (Kwikset, Sargent, Corbin Russwin, Yale, etc)? If there was one or two additional blocks I could pick up that would cover all or most of those, it's something I'd probably consider. Any thoughts/suggestions are welcome.
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by tpark » 19 May 2017 11:35
Ok, here's the things I would consider buying: Double Sided Vice F2SH050 This really does make a difference, you can use the tip alignment tool with the standard block, but it's a hassle. (You said you were getting this already, but here's the part number) Spacing block set FSB1001 If you want to actually have the spacing blocks, this is really helpful - since you're dialing in the spacings, I bet you could make a workable spacing block with a piece of dowel and fine sharpie, but somehow it's not the same. If you get the spacing blocks, you should also get the Spacing Block Rack F2SH750 This keeps the blocks with the machine, and then you can simply grab the block you need. Keeps 'em from getting lost. The standard FC8445 cutter cuts workable keys for SFIC, but you have to make the root cut 10 thou wider, since the root cut on the FC8445 is 45 thou, but it's 54 thou on the FC9054, and the angle is 90 on the FC9054, but 84 degrees on the FC8445. It takes a moment to widen the cut, not much time for one cut but if you're cutting a large number of keys it adds up. Depth and Space Manual FSMS350 If you have alternate data sources for the depth and space information, you might be able to sneak by without this, but it contains important information about machine setup. Drive Belt is F2MS601 (You said you're getting this from a third party, but here's the official part number) Since I'm a hobbyist, I don't cut the volume of keys that pros do, they might have differing opinions. My inclination for the spacing blocks is to buy the whole set, but that's just me. The standard cutter won't work for Sargent keys (they have a 78 degree angle, much steeper than the standard 84 degree cutter). Some of the parts I mentioned: 
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by RedE » 19 May 2017 11:40
demux wrote:So, my question is this. What other parts should I get? In other words, what parts add enough convenience to the operation of machine that they are worth the money to pick up? The code book? Being a hobbyist, I tend to work with a fairly small subset of key systems, and most of the space/depth info for those can be found online. An additional cutter or two? If so, which ones? As a couple people pointed out on that original thread, the basic one will be fine for most things, and I can always dial on the additional width manually when cutting SFIC keys. An additional spacing block or two? If so, which ones? The #1 block looks like it doesn't do SFIC, so if anyone knows which block does SFIC spacing, that's one I'd seriously consider. Then again, SFIC spacing is nice and even and so easy to just dial manually with the micrometer. Which block or blocks covers other common residential/commercial key systems (Kwikset, Sargent, Corbin Russwin, Yale, etc)? If there was one or two additional blocks I could pick up that would cover all or most of those, it's something I'd probably consider.
Any thoughts/suggestions are welcome.
To answer your first question, having a Framon code book is a must. Its so much easier than looking up stuff online, and quite often there's a lot of code series that you can't even find elsewhere outside the book. It also gives a lot of Framon-specific tips on how to cut certain keys that you otherwise wouldn't know how to do with just the depth and spacing information. I know that you said your plan is to use your current cutting wheel (FC8445 maybe?) and just widen the cuts. Widening works fine if you've got the time, but I went ahead and bought the SFIC-specific cutting wheel from the start, knowing that my spacing and root width would be as exact as possible every time. I've also noticed that the 84-degree angle of the generic wheel feels not quite as smooth when compared to the 90 degree angles of most other wheels. In truth, just about every lock manufacturer uses 90 degree cuts except for Sargent and Schlage, so I don't really know why 84 degrees is the default angle. But I do know that even non-locksmiths will tell me that keys feel a little smoother when they're cut with the correct wheel rather than the generic one. The #2 spacing block is the one for SFIC keys. You'll probably want to pick this up as it covers a few other brands too. Luckily for simplicity, just about every other American lock manufacturer uses 0.156 " as their spacing, which is on block #1. Off the top of my head, this includes Corbin, Falcon, Lockwood, Russwin, Schlage, Sargent, old Weiser, and Yale. Those that deviate from 0.156 " are Arrow and Dexter, which are both on the #2 spacing block. In summary, as long as you have the #1 and #2 blocks, you should be all set to do commercial and residential work (and many filing cabinets too!) But if you want to dive in and cut SFIC right away, just by knowing that its spacing is 0.150 " and that exactly three rotations of the spacing wheel is also 0.150 ", you can just dial in the first cut according to specifications and then do your three rotations for each subsequent cut without ever using a spacing block. BTW, Kwikset can also use this trick too because of its 0.150 " spacing! One last thing... You didn't ask this, but do you plan on cutting Medeco keys? If so, you'll need the FC8615 cutter for Original keys. For BiAxial, you'll also need the #4 spacing block. And for m3, you'll need the specific vise for it too. If you have any other questions about the machine, please ask!
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by demux » 19 May 2017 11:45
tpark wrote:Ok, here's the things I would consider buying:
Spacing block set FSB1001 If you want to actually have the spacing blocks, this is really helpful - since you're dialing in the spacings, I bet you could make a workable spacing block with a piece of dowel and fine sharpie, but somehow it's not the same.
Thanks for the info/pic. I don't think I want to buy the whole spacing block set at this time, that's a bit more money than I'd like to put into the machine until/unless my use of it picks up. If there were one or two blocks that would cover most common use cases, I might be able to convince myself to spring for them.
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by tpark » 19 May 2017 21:46
demux wrote:tpark wrote:Ok, here's the things I would consider buying:
Spacing block set FSB1001 If you want to actually have the spacing blocks, this is really helpful - since you're dialing in the spacings, I bet you could make a workable spacing block with a piece of dowel and fine sharpie, but somehow it's not the same.
Thanks for the info/pic. I don't think I want to buy the whole spacing block set at this time, that's a bit more money than I'd like to put into the machine until/unless my use of it picks up. If there were one or two blocks that would cover most common use cases, I might be able to convince myself to spring for them.
That's probably a good idea, as the dowel trick will work just fine. Since the distance between cuts is three spins of the knob, the dowel marking doesn't have to be super precise - what you're looking for is an indication that you're a spin off, or that you're on the wrong cut. Even for 150 vs. 156, 6 times 6 is 36 (36 thou) so you still have a pretty good indication of where you should be with your dowel. My experience with the machine parallels what RedE has experienced. The 90 degree does seem to make smoother keys, but not much, the keys from the standard wheel seem perfectly acceptable to me. For depth, I loosen the allen screw on the depth scale, and make a cut. Grabbing the handle, I then move the scale to the depth of the key I just cut (hold the depth handle still, move the scale). I use an HPC straight yoke micrometer to measure the key, but a standard digital caliper works. After an iteration or two, the depth will be bang on. There's an allen screw on the top of the assembly that may need to be tightened - you'll know this if the cutter chatters a lot while cutting. It's a balance between the tension on the screw adjusting the spacing wheel, and the tension adjusting the grip of the clamp assembly to the threaded rod. After reading this, what I wrote may not be perfectly clear, but the idea is to make the dial measurement match the actual depth that was cut, and to tighten things up so there's no lash, so you don't get chatter. Of course, your mileage may vary.
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by GWiens2001 » 19 May 2017 22:05
This might be of some use to you, jimu Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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