Making rakes slicker with graphite

[Jacob Morgan]

Bought the daughter (who enjoys picking locks too) a chrome plated set of picks a while back. A-1 makes them (or at least did, have not seen them for sale lately). http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=63627&p=472104#p472104 Was messing around with them myself the other day, and the double rake/c-rake and the triple rake/s-rake tore through a box of cylinders at record speed. I do not normally like triple rakes but it would open pin tumblers fast. The chrome plating must help, very very slick. Unfortunately, on the A-1 triple rake/s-rake, some of the chrome plating flaked off the side. The edge is still chrome plated, and it still works well, but do not imagine that chrome flaking off inside a lock would be good.

Got me thinking that instead of resorting to chrome plating for super slick picks, how about lubricating normal picks? Happened to have a container of small ceramic beads that are mixed with graphite. The normal use is to lubricate the necks of rifle cartridge brass before resizing them. Sticking something into the container leaves behind a very small amount of graphite, just a light dusting. http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/case-lube/imperial-application-media-prod33148.aspx

Tried raking a Yale (with two mushroom pins) with a SouthOrd c-rake and got it open within seconds a few times in a row. If it over-set, just reset it and had another go at it. It is not a scientific test, but it seemed to be faster with the graphite dusted pick. What little graphite stays in a lock might do it some good anyway. Has anyone else tried dusting their rakes with a little graphite?

[smokingman]

Polishing your tools to remove all the micro ridges ,burrs and sharp edges will give even better results and is less messy.

[tjohn]

Please.Put.Away.The.Graphite

[dontlook]

awww, why put away the graphite? Is this a dry vs. wet lube thing?

I have talked to a number of people who insist on graphite because locks are already "lubed" with it, and a liquid lube (PTFE, silicon, etc) would mix with dry graphite already in the lock to create a sludge/mud.

Having said that most of the padlocks I have interacted with seem to be lubed with some sort of grease, so I'm not sure if dry graphite is the solution under the mud theory.

[Razor2016]

Please.Put.Away.The.Graphite

[Jacob Morgan]

Ask a mechanic if it would be a good idea to run a car with oil in the crankcase, or would it be OK to leave out the messy oil but just polish up the rings and cylinders, and other moving parts. Any metal objects that come into contact with each other under any pressure at all are better off with a layer of lubricant between them. Polishing replaces big scratches with little scratches, and no matter how smooth something may appear there are serrations in the surface. Ever look at enlarged photos of pins that have been raked? Try looking up forensic locksmithing sometime.

In cartridge reloading one always uses lubricant when resizing a polished brass shell with a polished steel die, or else one has a polished disaster. A jar of resizing lubricant was on the work bench, so why not try it with a rake? The thought was to provide a very thin layer of lubricant on the working surface of rakes to minimize metal on metal contact, namely the less than one square millimeter of rake that contacts the pins. It seemed to help, but as in all of lock picking, it is hard to quantify. The rake in the photo above has the graphite on it. The application media leaves a very thin layer behind, not enough to leave any noticeable amount behind in a lock. It was never suggested to hose down the key-way with graphite.

The OP asked if anyone has tried it, and if anyone has actually tried it then their responses would be appreciated.

[femurat]

I see your point Jacob. You are a mechanic. Ask a clockmaker if he lubes clock gears. I know he doesn't.
I'm not a rake fan. I polish my picks and, from time to time, use some car body wax on them. I know this works very well. Your graphite idea may work too. I haven't tried it thought.

Cheers

[smokingman]

I see your point Jacob. You are a mechanic. Ask a clockmaker if he lubes clock gears. I know he doesn't.
I'm not a rake fan. I polish my picks and, from time to time, use some car body wax on them. I know this works very well. Your graphite idea may work too. I haven't tried it thought.

Cheers

+1 on the car wax.

[unjust]

brass and bronze are generally considered by machinists and metalurgists to be self lubricating. adding lubricants to them is just adding something to mess with the tolerances and/or collect gunk.

on an all steel or iron lock? yes, by all means it may be beneficial to add a lubricant.

[Squelchtone]

brass and bronze are generally considered by machinists and metalurgists to be self lubricating. adding lubricants to them is just adding something to mess with the tolerances and/or collect gunk.

on an all steel or iron lock? yes, by all means it may be beneficial to add a lubricant.

I'm glad to hear this repeated by someone else. A local old timey locksmith I know told me the same thing when I asked him what to use to lubricate my old Mosler hand change brass wheel pack safe lock, he said brass is self lubricating and I thought that was BS, but I know he knows what he's talking about.

Thanks
Squelchtone

[femurat]

Sorry for the off topic: if there are brass and steel in contact, is it still considered self lubricating? Or only if it's brass on brass?

Cheers

[unjust]

i'm not *that* good of a machinist, but here's what i've picked up around the shop:

sintered bronze bushings that have steel bearing on them shouldn't be oiled/greased (they have oil permanently impregnated into them, and are designed to wear a tiny bit until replaced)

brass/bronze to steel is generally considered to "considerably increase" galvanic corrosion between the parts, and a light oil might slow that down a bit, but your brass parts are going to corrode significantly faster than the steel and you don't want that. in the volume of material in a lock, it probably don't affect things much.

brass is significantly softer than steel, so unless the steel is polished, the steel is going to wear the brass parts (if they're moving) if the brass wears uniformly it'll lubricate the joint, and you wouldn't want to oil it. if the brass wears unevenly, the brass piece is going to be out of spec in short order, and you won't need to oil it anyway.

[unjust]

i should add, by "wear a tiny bit until replaced" they're designed for something north of hundreds of millions of revolutions without oil, so it's not like you're changing them weekly, but non migrating waxes can be used on certain specific types of high wear bushings.

[unjust]

further digression - in places like marine fittings where you've got polished brass next to polished steel, one or both will often be lacquered which will provide a non-conductive barrier, or the steel will be chromed, which adds a lot of protection against galvanic corrosion.

I'd think that you still wouldn't want to oil brass to chrome.

You do wipe some raw brass/bronze hardware with light oil to enhance/stabilize patina and clean off gunk. (not as a lubricant, but as a surface protectant)

[femurat]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, unjust.

Cheers