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Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Thinking of upgrading your door security? Getting a better deadbolt or padlock? Getting a new frame or better hinges? Not sure what brand or model to go with for your particular application? Need a recommendation? Feel free to ask for advice here!

Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby sj13 » 28 May 2017 8:57

All,

I am moving into a new condo building in nyc and a bit concerned about the super having my key as part of the master key for the building. He has been doing some work pre-move in and is extremely sketchy (happy to get into it if you are interested).

Basically I am allowed to change the locks and have a key down in a lock box at the front desk for emergency access or could leave it as is. Additionally, I could simply add a deadbolt and not give them the keys, but since it is a 2 year old building and I went through each floor and have yet to see someone add an additional lock, I wouldn't initially want to stick out so much.

Current lock is a Marks Mortise with deadbolt which I was thinking of swapping the cylinder out with something that will be more difficult to make a copy of and thus will not be carried around with the maintenance workers. Was thinking Mul-t MT5+ or Medeco M3 primarily, but wanted to ask if there are some more straight forward or lower cost routes? Maybe an odd keyway from a different manufacturer that would be difficult to obtain blanks for?

Appreciate your thoughts.

SJ
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby ltdbjd » 28 May 2017 9:51

Sounds like you have an idea of what you are looking for. Take a look at https://securitysnobs.com.
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby demux » 28 May 2017 11:32

Securitysnobs certainly has great stuff. If all you're after is key control though, you might find some of their offerings a bit on the expensive side, as they also focus on locks that are very difficult to pick/bump/open in other ways.

You might also take a look at your local brick and mortar locksmith, most such establishments have offerings from several of the major manufacturers in restricted keyways. These are locks that don't necessarily have enhanced pick protection, but any locksmith that carries those items signs a contract with the manufacturer that they won't cut keys unless the original purchaser comes in and verifies his identity. They'd be happy to sell you a mortise cylinder in such a keyway.
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby Robotnik » 28 May 2017 12:24

It may vary by region, but none of the condos my company manages cave a clause in their CC&R's compelling owners to provide a key. These buildings are mastered at construction, but nothing's stopping units from rekeying or replacing cylinders and not providing us a key. Granted, the flip side of that is during an emergency entry situation, we're either calling out a locksmith or breaking down the door.

If you're looking for affordable, key-controlled cylinders, I second the suggestion of visiting a local brick-and-mortar locksmith.
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby sj13 » 28 May 2017 12:47

Good points all around.

Itdbjd - yes, had been looking around securitysnobs, especially the bilock cylinder which seems excellent. Had noticed you guys are fans of them on here and wanted to makesure i did my homework prior to posting.

Demux / Robotnik - excellent point, I had read that locksmiths might have more restricted options. I appreciate you confirming this is the case - i will certainly explore a few local places with good review this week and let you know what i am hearing/seeing.

Robotnik - I am renting in a condo, so unfortunately have to provide per lease. Though this is a good point - if the owners don't have to supply a key to maintenance, then i doubt the super will be looking for one from me. In an emergency, i think i could accept the repayment of replacing the door with the certainty that no one is entering the apartment without our knowledge.

As background i travel a fair bit for work and the girlfriend will be alone in the apartment frequently - this with what we have seen in regards to the super led me to explore these options.

After lurking around here for a few days I knew you guys would have some proper advice.

I will report back after checking out what the local shops have to offer in restricted keyways that will make it a bit harder than normal to get the key copied.
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby Squelchtone » 28 May 2017 14:01

Visit Greenwich Locksmiths in person, bring your current cylinder or at least a photo of the cam on the back of it, and measure how deep the cylinder is (5 pin is shorter than 6 pin and may need a collar on the face of the door, they'll be able to sell you a key control solution and make you all the keys you need.

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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby demux » 28 May 2017 14:10

sj13 wrote:Demux / Robotnik - excellent point, I had read that locksmiths might have more restricted options. I appreciate you confirming this is the case - i will certainly explore a few local places with good review this week and let you know what i am hearing/seeing.


sj13, another point I neglected to make earlier. You mentioned in your original post about not wanting to stand out. If you can determine the manufacturer of your existing mortise cylinder (it's usually stamped either on the face of the cylinder itself, or on the bow of your key if you have a manufacturer original), you might also try calling ahead and seeing if the smith carries restricted keyways from that manufacturer. Not all smiths carry stuff from every manufacturer, but if you have more than 2 or 3 in your area, odds are you can find something from all the major manufacturers. If you do this, your new lock will look the same as all your neighbors' to the casual observer, and most people won't even be aware that you've upgraded.

If you don't know who makes your current lock, you can try posting a pic of the lock itself or the bow (the top part that hooks onto the keyring) of your key, odds are one of us on here can help you identify it. Don't post a pic of the bitting of your key though (the bumpy part that actually goes into the lock). A less-than-scrupulous person with the right skills and equipment could actually copy your key from the pic if you do that...
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby sj13 » 28 May 2017 15:41

Its a Marks Mortise with a Marks cylinder.

I have read and watched videos on removing the cylinder, though I have only installed and reinstalled deadbolts before. Are there any specifics I might need to know when removing the cylinder to take a measurement and photos other than: turn set screw 4/5 times to allow cylinder to be removed, insert key 3/4 of the way and turn counterclockwise to remove. When putting back in reverse process, but dont screw in cylinder all the way, only enough that it is fully in, but key is facing proper way and is working before locking down with set screw. Don't want to get it out only to not be able to get it back in because I have no idea what im working with here.

Squelchtone - i have used them for some copies before. I'll stop down on Tuesday after work and see what they can do.

demux - will look to see if this route is possible as that would be ideal. Any idea if Marks offers a few restricted keyways?
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby cledry » 28 May 2017 16:23

sj13 wrote:Its a Marks Mortise with a Marks cylinder.

I have read and watched videos on removing the cylinder, though I have only installed and reinstalled deadbolts before. Are there any specifics I might need to know when removing the cylinder to take a measurement and photos other than: turn set screw 4/5 times to allow cylinder to be removed, insert key 3/4 of the way and turn counterclockwise to remove. When putting back in reverse process, but dont screw in cylinder all the way, only enough that it is fully in, but key is facing proper way and is working before locking down with set screw. Don't want to get it out only to not be able to get it back in because I have no idea what im working with here.

Squelchtone - i have used them for some copies before. I'll stop down on Tuesday after work and see what they can do.

demux - will look to see if this route is possible as that would be ideal. Any idea if Marks offers a few restricted keyways?


You might want to loosen the two screws that hold the morise body into the door. Occasionally the cylinder bore is off and this makes it easier to remove. When you screw the new one in make sure it has a Yale type cam and that you rotate counterclockwise first until you feel it drop in and then turn clockwise. it should not require any real turning force to screw in.
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby greengrowlocks » 28 May 2017 16:32

sj13 wrote:Its a Marks Mortise with a Marks cylinder.

demux - will look to see if this route is possible as that would be ideal. Any idea if Marks offers a few restricted keyways?


Marks offer these with restricted sidebar bidding .http://marksusa.com/hi-security-cylinders.html

Your lock wouldn't stand out as much as a Bilock and would also look like your neighbors. I ordered two of the Marks High security locks that should be arriving soon so I can't comment on their pick resistance yet but I would assume that a Bilock would be more secure. I have a Bilock from Security snobs and can attest to them being very pick resistant and well made locks. The Marks high security lock is less expensive too. I'm not sure which one suits your needs better but the Marks may be an option.
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby sj13 » 28 May 2017 20:10

Jim - thanks for the tips.

greengrow - was just reading about them. looks like that is the ideal solution. let me know what you think of them when you get yours in.
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby demux » 28 May 2017 20:12

sj13, if you've never done it before, I would repeat and stress cledry's point about being very gentle and careful when putting it back. A mortise cylinder is basically a very big machine screw with very fine threads. If it isn't lined up just so, it's very easy to get it cross threaded and bugger up the threading on the lockset inside the door. If that happens, you've got a whole new level of trouble (and expense) to get it fixed. Imagine the amount of force necessary to put a plain old nut on a plain old machine screw. It'll take just a bit more than that to get the cylinder threaded just because it's larger, but if it takes significantly more, there's probably something wrong somewhere. Don't force it. Take it out, figure out what's wrong, and try again. Better to take a few attempts and get it in there right than to screw something up. When I'm doing them, I don't even use the key to install them, just my thumb and forefinger pressing on the face or just the very front tip of the edge of the cylinder. Just that small amount of pressure should give you the grip you need to get it threaded, if you find you're needing to use much more force than that, again there's probably something wrong and you should figure out what.

greengrowlocks, I've been long considering the purchase of a Marks high security cylinder to play around with, mind if I ask where you got yours from?
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby greengrowlocks » 29 May 2017 1:53

sj13 wrote:Jim - thanks for the tips.

greengrow - was just reading about them. looks like that is the ideal solution. let me know what you think of them when you get yours in.


Will do. I'm thinking they should be here by Tuesday due to Memorial day.
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby greengrowlocks » 29 May 2017 2:23

demux wrote:
greengrowlocks, I've been long considering the purchase of a Marks high security cylinder to play around with, mind if I ask where you got yours from?


The only place I could find them online was this site -> shop.lockarmor.com. This is my first order from them and the site only sells a few different products. I have wanted one for awhile as well but they never seem to come up on ebay.

For some reason they only sell them in pairs (two cylinders, 4 keys) so I had to get two cylinders. I've already made a special pick in .012" for the sidebar but waiting to finish it until I see the locks in person.
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Re: Upgrading Mortise Cylinder: Key Control

Postby greengrowlocks » 1 Jun 2017 23:42

sj13 wrote:greengrow - was just reading about them. looks like that is the ideal solution. let me know what you think of them when you get yours in.


I received the Marks Hi-Security locks yesterday. I found them difficult to pick, at least enough so that I would feel comfortable having them on my home. The tolerances are tight and the driver pins are made to hook up on the counter milling inside the pin chambers. I still feel that the Bilock or something like a Schalge Primus would be even more pick resistant but I feel like any of them would stop entry of criminals with basic lock picking skills.

Here is a photo of the face of the cylinder
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