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by 9jack9 » 10 Jul 2017 10:33
I saw some of these for the first time today. Is the non-round shackle intended to prevent shimming?
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by Silverado » 10 Jul 2017 10:38
Shim protection is dependent on the internal locking mechanism, not the shackle. The hexagonal shackle is reported to be harder to cut than the round shackle.
"If you are not currently on a government watch list. You are doing something wrong" - GWiens2001
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by gumptrick » 10 Jul 2017 13:01
I did see a video on youtube (sorry, I can't find it again!) that showed one of those Master locks being picked. The narrator called it an octagonal shackle but it was clearly a hexagon, not an octagon. In that video it was described as being un-shimmable, but I doubt that is the true purpose of it. There are various other ways to make a lock non-shimmable, including increased precision so there is not a large enough gap to fit a shim inside, ball-bearing type locking, or any number of various mechanisms which don't rely on a spring-loaded pawl.
Yes, it's true that a hexagon would contain slightly more metal than a round shackle of the same "diameter" and thus would be slightly harder to cut or break, but one could always just use a larger diameter round shackle instead.
In my opinion it's simply a cosmetic choice to make the lock stand out and look different. I don't think it has any practical value. In fact, I'd rather have a round shackle because the round shape would be harder to engage with tools if someone was trying to break or cut the lock.
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by Jacob Morgan » 10 Jul 2017 13:51
Raw material-wise, one can buy round or hex bar. My guess is that the hex material might be easier to turn into a shackle (the flat sides are easier to clamp / index off of than something round). And then marketing spins into a selling feature.
Similar to how a small amount of titanium is added to nearly all aluminum as a casting grain refiner to aid in casting, and then the marketing department then makes a big deal with the TITANIUM! alloy.
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by billdeserthills » 10 Jul 2017 15:33
Silverado wrote:Shim protection is dependent on the internal locking mechanism, not the shackle. The hexagonal shackle is reported to be harder to cut than the round shackle.
In my past experience it isn't any harder than the round shackle
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by Silverado » 10 Jul 2017 16:28
billdeserthills wrote:Silverado wrote:Shim protection is dependent on the internal locking mechanism, not the shackle. The hexagonal shackle is reported to be harder to cut than the round shackle.
In my past experience it isn't any harder than the round shackle
Learn something new everyday! I had heard that was the purpose and just believed it. I suppose I should have tested the theory, now that I think about it.
"If you are not currently on a government watch list. You are doing something wrong" - GWiens2001
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by gumptrick » 10 Jul 2017 17:57
Jacob Morgan wrote:Raw material-wise, one can buy round or hex bar.
Yes, you can. But hex bar is FAR more costly than round bar per the same unit weight. My guess is that the hex material might be easier to turn into a shackle (the flat sides are easier to clamp / index off of than something round).
With automated machinery in a plant there is zero difference in clamping difficulty. Round bar is actually better since it can be fed through a swiss-style lathe whereas that cannot be done with square or hex bar because those will not feed through the guide bushing. There's also extra work involved since the hex has to be turned down to a smaller, round, section where it enters the body of the lock. There's no doubt it's more costly to manufacture hex shackles rather than round. Similar to how a small amount of titanium is added to nearly all aluminum as a casting grain refiner to aid in casting, and then the marketing department then makes a big deal with the TITANIUM! alloy.
Yeah, that's always funny! I also love it when they coat a part with a micron-thin layer of Titanium or Titanium Nitride and then advertise the product as being "Titanium".
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by GWiens2001 » 10 Jul 2017 19:03
The hex shackles, like the square link chains, are supposed to be harder to cut with bolt cutters than round because one of the flat surfaces likes up with one of the bolt cutter's jaws spreading the force over a larger surface area.
A decent pair of bolt cutters would have long handles, greatly increasing force, making the thin shackle of a Master padlock with a hexagonal shackle no big deal.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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by billdeserthills » 10 Jul 2017 20:41
I snipped off a bunch of newer hex #5's that didn't volunteer to pick open quickly enough The thing that actually busted my last Harbor Freight clipper was trying to cut through a trailer hitch lock. Two guys each grabbed a handle and gave em' a squeeze--the handle snapped off--
I figured they were already paid for, I got over 20 years outta that pair
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by Jacob Morgan » 10 Jul 2017 22:24
gumptrick wrote:Jacob Morgan wrote:Raw material-wise, one can buy round or hex bar.
Yes, you can. But hex bar is FAR more costly than round bar per the same unit weight. My guess is that the hex material might be easier to turn into a shackle (the flat sides are easier to clamp / index off of than something round).
With automated machinery in a plant there is zero difference in clamping difficulty. Round bar is actually better since it can be fed through a swiss-style lathe whereas that cannot be done with square or hex bar because those will not feed through the guide bushing. There's also extra work involved since the hex has to be turned down to a smaller, round, section where it enters the body of the lock. There's no doubt it's more costly to manufacture hex shackles rather than round.
Here is a video of them being made (skip ahead to 1:12) https://youtu.be/8UCE5nM41NkI would wager that Master Lock brings in coils of round stock and does a wire-drawing operation on-site. Cleans any rust off, straightens the material, and can impart either a more precise diameter or a shape as it goes through the die. Used to work a plant that made industrial grating and we had a similar machine that took rusty coils of wire (calling the 3/16 to 1/4" stock they used wire seems a stretch but that is what they called it) and drew-down, and made it square. Another machine straightened it before it was sheared to length. At that place we not only made the round stock square but also twisted it--supposedly it was more rigid that way. It allowed us to buy cheap hot rolled coils of wire that came in on flat bed rail cars and could stay out in the rain if need be. One machine ran by one operator turned those rusty hot rolled coils into clean, good tolerance stock. An octagonal die would be more expensive than a round die, but dies last a while. As per the video, the cuts for the bolts / balls are put in after the shackle is bent and however those two cuts are made they are not being made on a Swiss screw machine. The octagonal shape may be cosmetic, but also keep in mind is that we are talking about Master Lock, not Pratt & Whitney. Who knows how long that tooling goes before being refurbished--maybe it is easier to shim up fixtures to adjust for wear if one is dealing with flat versus round surfaces. Just a theory.
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by greengrowlocks » 11 Jul 2017 4:01
Regarding the Master Lock boron carbide hex shackles there is a video on youtube (Wayne Winton Channel) testing the force needed to cut them . He couldn't get it open with 24" bolt cutters but eventually cut it with 36" bolt cutters and ratchet strap. He notes that they can be shimmed but I don't think that part is true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTrdxj0PChQ&t=1sMaster M15 w/ Hex Shackle 
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by femurat » 11 Jul 2017 5:16
Interesting video. I count 8 sides, not 6, so the shackle is octagonal. I have that padlock. About cutting its shackle, I like mine intact. I'll let others do the test themselves if they want. Cheers 
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by mseifert » 11 Jul 2017 7:36
femurat wrote:Interesting video. I count 8 sides, not 6, so the shackle is octagonal. I have that padlock. About cutting its shackle, I like mine intact. I'll let others do the test themselves if they want. Cheers 
All of Master Literature states that the Hexagonal/Octagonal shackles are meant to increase resistance to bolt cutters. Doesn't show anything about its purpose being for anything else.
When I finally leave this world.. Will someone please tell my wife what I have REALLY spent on locks ...
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by Silverado » 11 Jul 2017 8:41
Apparently I wasn't mislead. The literature about there being more surface area, thus making it harder to apply bolt cutters' force to a concentrated area sounded like a legitimate claim and I just believed it. Master lock has an entire section of their website dedicated to people writing testimony about how "unbreakable, infallible, and un-drillable" the locks are...The one even says they "tried drilling the lock for over two hours and got nowhere" whereas I actually drilled a Master Lock not long ago and it was open in under a minute...Just goes to show that manufacturer's claim a lot of things and not much of it is true.
"If you are not currently on a government watch list. You are doing something wrong" - GWiens2001
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by billdeserthills » 11 Jul 2017 17:08
Silverado wrote:Apparently I wasn't mislead. The literature about there being more surface area, thus making it harder to apply bolt cutters' force to a concentrated area sounded like a legitimate claim and I just believed it. Master lock has an entire section of their website dedicated to people writing testimony about how "unbreakable, infallible, and un-drillable" the locks are...The one even says they "tried drilling the lock for over two hours and got nowhere" whereas I actually drilled a Master Lock not long ago and it was open in under a minute...Just goes to show that manufacturer's claim a lot of things and not much of it is true.
Perhaps they were using a dull drillbit, I understand the legal term is 'Puffing', when the manufacturer lies about their 'fine' product
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