How talented is Bosnianbob?

[Lelandwelds]

He and the lockpicking lawyer make $100 padlocks look worthless. Are they elite, top level lockpickers? Or, can my local semi pro thief / meth head do that too?

My master padlocks are crap. If I move outbuilding doors to a deadbolt or mortise lock would that be a tougher pick?

[billdeserthills]

Sure it would, even most standard mortise cylinders are 6 pin, instead of the likely 4 pin Master padlocks you are using
It would also be easy to install a much harder to pick mortise cylinder into a mortise door lock.
Thing I don't like most about a padlock is generally when you use one you provide some 'weak links'
to exploit. Most hasps are just asking to get bashed off with a hammer, the chain commonly used is
thinner than the shackle on the padlock and either way cheap padlock/chain cutters are cheap & plentiful

Bosnian Bob is quite talented, I wouldn't even bother trying to pick open some of the stuff he touches
but then I do this for a living, not fun

[Silverado]

I agree with Bill here; some of the things BB and LPL are picking on YouTube are things I would likely never even try to play with. That aside, I do not believe a thief or drug addict would take the time to learn something as complex as picking locks. In your previous post you mentioned that whoever it is breaking into your things is obviously not trying to cover their tracks very well (beer cans in trash, welding rods in trash, etc.) and it makes me question if they are actually 'breaking in.'
I would suspect this person was a previous employee or had some sort of association with the place in the past. They know when to go there so they will not be encountered, they have not broken locks to get in, they seem to know where everything is... That is my observation though.

[mseifert]

I think BB and LPL have a great amount of experience and knowledge when it come to picking .. I will always watch videos that post.

Do I think they are some kind of 3l33t picker, no I dont.. I think through some kind of cosmic network resource they just have access to a wide variety of locks. I have noticed that the majority of the locks they pick have your run of the mill security pins.. Spools, Serrated, etc. these pins will react the same no matter what lock you put them in .. The challenge comes in the Tolerance, keyway, etc .. Scroll through there collection of video and see how many Medeco Biaxials they pick .. How many dimple, wafer, warded, etc ..

One other thing to keep in mind is .. When you see them pick a look in a few secs.. Unless they specifically state it .. They have picked it several times before and have a pretty good idea about the bidding order..

Just my 2 cents.

[Lelandwelds]

I weld up my own hasps. They're tough.

Been here for 40 years without any employees. I use 20 keys kept on three huge key rings. I have many, many old unused keys still on there. Be kind of hard to only copy the six important ones with nothing labeled.

Gates that I locked really snug are sometimes loose. Tool boxes are still locked but the locks are swapped.

My real problem is my schedule is predictable. Its obvious when the place is empty. Moving the game cam is how we saw the guy.

I need to replace barb wire with no climb horse fence. I need more cameras. I need to build locked tool cribs and move the locked tool boxes in there. I need tear down the converted feed shed / shade for cows building and build a new metal building. Somehow all the steel and pipe racks need to be secured.

I guess I need to admit this place isnt in the country anymore.

[Lelandwelds]

So, i think I am hearing it doesn really matter what form the lock takes. Lock security comes from the number of pins, the quality of construction, the inclusion of different types of security pins or spring strengths, and a bit of novelty or unfamiliarity. The level of skill and knowledge shown here and on youtube isn't common.

All the videos have one thing in common: space ( and time).

The physical attacks need room to swing the pipe wrench, prybar, or hammer. All the pickers will reposition the lock where it is comfortable. They need 3 or 4 inches at the keyway to manipulate. Plain old cheap steel will restrict both those access points.

[demux]

So, i think I am hearing it doesn really matter what form the lock takes. Lock security comes from the number of pins, the quality of construction, the inclusion of different types of security pins or spring strengths, and a bit of novelty or unfamiliarity. The level of skill and knowledge shown here and on youtube isn't common.

Well, yes and no. On the one hand, a quality lock is a quality lock, regardless of the form factor. On the other hand, certain form factors lend themselves to certain attack methods that may not be viable against other form factors. As a general rule, the more pieces of a lock are exposed, the more attack methods can be employed against that lock. So all other things being equal, a mortise lock would be a bit harder to attack than a cylindrical lock, which would be a bit harder to attack than a padlock and chain or hasp.

If you don't believe your intruder has a key, and if he's not obviously picking the locks (you should be able to see this if you can capture him on one of your game cameras), and if the locks aren't being physically destroyed, my guess would be he's got a bump key and is using that to get in. If that's the case, your best and cheapest route to stop him would be to replace your locks with something that has a key profile that it's hard to find bump keys for, or does not lend itself to bumping. The cheap disc detainers Squelchtone posted in the other thread would certainly fit that bill. Yeah, they are cheap, but I'd wager they'd go toe to toe with the Masters you have now, and while they're certainly not impregnable, opening them requires some specialized tools and knowledge that most people won't have, or the will to physically destroy the lock itself.

[gumptrick]

So, i think I am hearing it doesn really matter what form the lock takes. Lock security comes from the number of pins, the quality of construction, the inclusion of different types of security pins or spring strengths, and a bit of novelty or unfamiliarity.

I would reword that to say "pick resistance" rather than security in general. All of those things would make it more difficult to open via single-pin picking, raking, zipping, etc. But the other aspects of security, like bypassing, shimming, or defeating another part of the system (cutting a chain or hasp, for example) are unaffected. Another factor is the choice of the keyway in the lock. Many of them can make it extremely difficult to pick due to that factor alone.

The level of skill and knowledge shown here and on youtube isn't common.

All the videos have one thing in common: space ( and time).
The physical attacks need room to swing the pipe wrench, prybar, or hammer. All the pickers will reposition the lock where it is comfortable. They need 3 or 4 inches at the keyway to manipulate. Plain old cheap steel will restrict both those access points.[/quote]

Yes, those are absolutely true.

And demux raises a great point: look at the whole system, not just the lock itself. Even a high-end lock that is virtually unpickable could be circumvented it by cutting a relatively weak chain, breaking an insecure hasp, or prying open an ill-fitting door.

But weren't you reporting that there were no signs of physically damaged locks? If I understand correctly it sounds like this guy is either picking, using a bump key, or somehow has a key or key(s) that he's using. Perhaps he has a pick gun or an electropick. Those things can all be defeated by higher quality locks with a restricted keyway.

[Lelandwelds]

We're using the game cams to track deer. I ignore the daytime shots usually because if you have seen one cow... None of the cams are set up near work or storage areas because the deer are after food and bedding areas and mostly avoid those.

These new words and ideas are forcing Google and youtube to the front of my brain. I have seen vids of Master locks with two pin stacks too short to engage, opened with a rubber band, a tiny hammer, cat food lid, zzip tie, a paper clip, a key from another lock, etc. I watched videos of safe attacks, SWAT dynamic entry, halligan tool forcible entry, quickie saws, etc. I can make the physical attacks difficult if I can prevent access to my tools.

This guy is just a fluke. I think he's building a go cart or a gate or something like that. It freaked us out but probably mostly harmless. Probably. Its the next guy i need to worry about.

I think the layered approach is best. I read some white papers, a RFP, watched some wing nut videos, etc. I get the idea now. I just need to ddecide what is sane and keep this from creeping into an impossible project. Oh, and pay for it all.

I found some big round American and a couple brass Yale padlocks and three low resolution game cams. I am moving some stuff around.

[Lelandwelds]

Mortise locks seem expensive for ag use. Adamsrite glass door locks arent as bad. They both complicate the door fab. I'm thinking the door needs to be built like a vault door or a swinging driveway gate for the stronger hinges. What about the hockey puck locks?

Pacific makes one with1/4'' tapped mounting holes on the back. It would bolt to the door face over a slot. A fixed hasp welded to the inside door frame could poke through as the door is shut. With a capped length of pipe welded to the door face, a thief couldnt even see where to attack with a grinder. A. " u" shaped piece of 1/4 x 1" flat steel welded to door face and the pipe would keep torsion wrenches away from keyway. It would look like an igloo. Maybe add some flat bar welded on edge about an inch and a half away from the end of the " u " to keep out drills or lock picks.

The lock idea from job boxes would work too. It locks on lock body instead of shackle. A small parker air cylinder only costs $15. It could pull a door mounted rod out of the concrete.

[billdeserthills]

The Pacific lock idea sounds good, you don't have to make the U-shape, if you don't want to,
Master makes a hardened steel 'Padlock Eye' that will likely work for your situation--They have
a #60 and also a #60D, one is flat, one is bent. I just looked on Amazon, wow, these have really
gone up since my Dad bought them 30 years ago.

If you leave too much space around the padlock you are asking for a criminal to bash, or crowbar
the lock, easy enough to weld a box around it with just enough room to get the key in--You better not lose that key

I like to make whatever I secure so it's nice & tight--Thieves will suspect a weakness if they can
feel a door/cabinet move. If everything is solid, it makes things appear sturdy and tough, which translates into
Too Much Hard Work to steal from. Also keep in mind that this suspect already 'knows' he can do as he wishes with your stuff-
He will likely try extra hard to find a way back in. That's where the cameras will come in, hopefully.

So unfair that honest folks hafta spend extra money in an attempt to keep what they already own, when one box
of padlocks equipped with poisoned stabbing needles could exterminate this rat and solve your whole problem

[kwoswalt99-]

Somewhere between me and farmerfreak.

[Lelandwelds]

I have seen some videos of farmerfreak locks being struggled with. Are you Kyle from Michigan?

[kwoswalt99-]

I have seen some videos of farmerfreak locks being struggled with. Are you Kyle from Michigan?

Yes. Do we know each other?

[Lelandwelds]

No, I am in Texas. I buy garage sale tools to reforge into knives and tomahawks, etc. I was lurking on a garage forum and saw your post on a used tool buy for $30. It looked familiar. I googled your handle and it led me back to my own post here.

No way two guys have that name.