Keyway Won't Tension (spinning freely)

[SightlessSenshi]

Hi everyone. First of all, let me qualify this by saying I am blind in both eyes, so my apologies if my descriptions are a little... obviously from a blind guy. Anyway, I'm fairly new to picking—been at it for a bit over a month now. I can pick the average padlocks: Master, Brinks, Centurion, and so forth, as well as a few old dead-bolts I bought at a second-hand store. But I'm running to issues with a particular few locks. First was one my father showed me last time I visited: a $3 no-name lock from a dollar store. The second two were given to me by my boss, as a challenge while I work. (I don't work with locks, my boss is just cool.) Anyway, the locks are of different brands; my dad's had no name, and my boss' were both Master's. The master locks have two or three cuts in the shackle to allow the lock to be set at different heights along its length, or some such. The shackle can be totally removed from the lock itself by way of the key. Anyway, here's my issue: I stick a tension wrench in the keyway, put some light tension, and... it just spins freely. Full 360. I've tried every side of the keyway, every size of tensioner I own. The keyway just spins and spins. No tension at all. The keys work just fine though. What am I doing wrong here?

[gumptrick]

Some locks have a small metal disc with a slot in it set in the front of the keyway. This disc is not fixed to the core of the lock and it can rotate freely. My guess is that your locks are equipped with a disc like that and that you're inadvertently spinning this disc rather than actually getting to the core. A longer tension wrench may be able to fit past the disc and get into the core itself.

[SightlessSenshi]

I'm using the longest one I own, to no avail. I may have to get rather creative on it, if that's indeed the issue.

[gumptrick]

Another possibility is that it's a warded lock rather than a normal pin tumbler.

You can tell by examining the key. A normal pin-tumbler lock will have a series of angled cuts on one edge. A warded lock from Master would have a key that seems mostly straight but has a series of narrow rectangular notches cut on both edges. You should be able to tell those apart by feel, I'm thinking.

[SightlessSenshi]

Yes! I think that's the issue! It does have a key like that. Ridge-like cuts on both sides. Well, like on the left side at the top on one side, and along the bottom right edge, if that makes sense. Can't explain it much better than that. What tools do I need to get at that?

[gumptrick]

While there do exist some really fancy warded locks, most of them are incredibly easy to open.

There aren't any pins in the lock, though there are metal protrusions (wards) that stick into the keyway. The purpose of the notches in the key is to avoid hitting those protrusions. You can open a lock like this by using a tool that has sort of a "T" or cross shape. The width of the T or the short arm of the cross should be as wide as the main body of the key. Stick that down to the bottom of the lock and rotate. There are no pins to pick, you just need to reach past the majority of the notches and turn the one at the very bottom of the keyway.

[SightlessSenshi]

Thanks so much!!! Do you have any specific tool recommendations? All I have now is a Sparrows Tuxedo kit.

[gumptrick]

They make special tools for opening warded locks. They're usually a long, narrow, T- or Cross-shape. Imagine if you took one of the keys you had now and you filed away most of the metal on the key all the way down to the base of the notches, leaving just a little bit of a "T" at the tip of the key.

[SightlessSenshi]

Very cool! Thank you so much for all the help. I really appreciate it!

[stratmando]

Just too add, some need a little of the bottom of the "T" filed down, as there is sometimes a ward at the bottom of the "t", requiring a narrower "T".
Good Luck.

[SightlessSenshi]

Thanks! I'm ordering some warded picks now. While I wait for them, I'll focus on my old rival: a Brinks R70, which I cannot pick, and I have no idea why. But that's probably best saved for another topic, I'd imagine. Anyway, thanks y'all.

[greengrowlocks]

I'll focus on my old rival: a Brinks R70, which I cannot pick, and I have no idea why.

Maybe try heavier tension. You'll have to overcome the resistance of the shackle rubbing on the inside of the disc. I had some trouble with mine until I used heavier tension. Don't bend your tension wrench though and ideally use TOK. Good luck!

[SightlessSenshi]

I'll focus on my old rival: a Brinks R70, which I cannot pick, and I have no idea why.

Maybe try heavier tension. You'll have to overcome the resistance of the shackle rubbing on the inside of the disc. I had some trouble with mine until I used heavier tension. Don't bend your tension wrench though and ideally use TOK. Good luck!

I've tried some pretty darn heavy tension on that round little beast, and it still won't yield to my best efforts. But I'll keep at it!

[GWiens2001]

They have spool pins. Go a bit lighter on the tension, like a Master lock. When you lift a pin that you already set, and the plug pushes back on the tension wrench, it is called counter rotation. That is where you have a spool pin.

Lift that pin a bit higher until you feel it set again.

Gordon

[SightlessSenshi]

Just to update all those who helped me: I got it. Both of them, rather. Bought some warded lock picks and was able to open those padlocks—though they (the picks) did have a tendency to get alarmingly stuck. But it worked. And I finally beat that accursed Brinks R70. I can't quite SPP it yet, my skills aren't that leveled-up yet. But I can consistently rake it open or rock it open, with a Bogota or city rake, respectively. I actually modified one of my Bogotas, by rounding off its points with some metal files my girlfriend let me borrow, and that worked wonders. I got the idea from one of her picks, that came from Peterson—a Sine Quint, or some such. She and I were both able to open the Brinks with that, so I gave my Bogota the same sort of rounding, and it works marvelously on the Brinks. Thank you all so much for your help and advice. It feels really good to have finally beaten both the warded locks and the Brinks that had vexed me for so long.