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Magazine locks

Thinking of upgrading your door security? Getting a better deadbolt or padlock? Getting a new frame or better hinges? Not sure what brand or model to go with for your particular application? Need a recommendation? Feel free to ask for advice here!

Magazine locks

Postby Lelandwelds » 30 Jul 2017 1:28

I am in the planning stages of taking my fireworks hobby to the next level. My magazine would be 8ft by 8ft or so. It has to be bullet proof and the door is 1/4" steel at a minimum. Two 5 pin padlocks with hardened 3/8" shackles are required. They must be mounted under a hood to shield from hammers and prybars. Two mortice locks are possible. I can get a waiver to use puck locks. I can use a combo of the above.

With the distance requirements, this by design is in a fairly remote spot . I would inspect it only once a week. I will stack gabions against the wall and roof so the sides are pretty tamper proof. The door is really the most likely place to need to resist entry. I'm not worried about the door strength or torch resistance. Only a moron would spark on an explosives magazine.

Grinders and drills concern me. If I go with a puck, I will weld up my own hasp instead of the thin store bought one. Mine will be 6 inches tall and about an inch thick and will have silver soldered WC inserts, hardfacing, or knife steel plates. Pacific lock's version has holes to mount it on my door. I would weld a lid on my hasp and cover all sides of the puck. I would weld a plate on edge about 3 " from the keyway to keep drills away.

Padlocks would be hidden in the door frame and would have a stationary 2" or 3" shackle. A notched bar welded to the door would lock up on the body of the padlock. The key would be on an extension and maybe a u joint. The pocket for key access would be just two fingers wide and six inches long. It would be nice to hide behind a door and use an obvious lock on the door as a decoy.

The bad guy would need extra discs and batteries. Bimetal saws would be trashed almost instantly. I hope the hazard placards on the door would keep torches away. Such limited access would make picking tough.
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Re: Magazine locks

Postby GWiens2001 » 30 Jul 2017 7:59

For puck lock protection, you may consider this well made holder

You can get Mul-T-Lock puck locks, padlocks, and mortises. Then even the five pin locks can be more difficult to pick than a standard padlock.

eBay is a place to get some of the old Sargent & Greenleaf military padlocks. If you pick up an 831 or 833 lock for a reasonable price, there is more protection from physical attack than any other padlock you will reasonably find.

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: Magazine locks

Postby Lelandwelds » 30 Jul 2017 16:36

That certainly is a well made hasp. Those two padlocks and the Hi Shear are famous for being tough and secure. ( I've drawn up a gate/chain lock based on a stationary bike rack I saw once. Its a clamshell with two chain keyhole slots and two pins. I might cut it in half and weld the other end of chain to the gate.)

I have come to believe that the weakest point and most likely to be attacked is the hasp, chain, door, roof,etc. I will go so far as to say everything is sight except a quality padlock is a weak point. The shrouded padlocks make it difficult to fit a large enough chain in there.

I am starting to believe the smarter approach is to pick a hefty, mid high security pad lock and deny access to the lock and associated parts. ( Paclock 900 and hide the thing.)

Or, put it out front and invite attention. It just needs enough steel in the way to wear out two discs, one battery, and the operator. ( A Paclock 2171 is about 3" in diameter. That's a lot of grinding before you could get a 4.5" disc and the gear housing of a grinder to the right spot on the lock itself. )

But, I'm short on real world experience. Two weeks on the Internet, even if thorough, isnt the same.
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Re: Magazine locks

Postby GWiens2001 » 30 Jul 2017 17:21

You want to protect the lock? Try the NAPEC padlock hasp.

Gordon
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Re: Magazine locks

Postby Lelandwelds » 30 Jul 2017 22:02

Yes, that or a version of that is pretty common. A homemade version is on one of my cargo boxes and makes a great wasp nest. It does makes direct hammer strikes or bolt cutters more difficult.

Removed destructive entry information. Discussion of destructive entry is restricted to the advanced forums.

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Re: Magazine locks

Postby GWiens2001 » 30 Jul 2017 22:45

Sounds like a wasp nest would be added security. :twisted:

Gordon
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Re: Magazine locks

Postby gumptrick » 31 Jul 2017 15:48

I would think that for a magazine for the storage of flammable or explosive materials then it would prudent to avoid sparks as much as possible. If this were my project I'd be concerned about minimizing the amount of steel that was present to reduce the possibility of accidental contact creating sparks.

A crook would have to be nuts to attempt to get into a explosives magazine by using a grinder to attack steel parts!

A friend of mine built a magazine for storing gunpowder. It was built from cinder block with concrete poured in between the holes once the block walls were assembled. Shelves inside are all wood. The door is very thick hardwood, reinforced with 2 layers of marine-grade plywood glued to the inside. The hinges are bronze. He is using two big marine padlocks (100% brass/bronze) and even the hasps they attach to are bronze. One half of each hasp goes on the door; that is secured using bronze bolts. The other parts that attach to the concrete block are mounted using lead lag shields and bronze screws, all coated with epoxy during assembly for extra security.

The only reason I know about that was he asked me if he could borrow my forklift for a project. I replied: "sure, do you need to move something heavy? unload a truck maybe"?" His answer was no, rather he was reinforcing a door and wanted to park something really heavy on top of it while the glue set. We used paint rollers to apply waterproof carpenter's glue to the door and the plywood, layered it all up, then stuck a steel plate on top (to protect the door temporarily) and then parked my old CAT V80 on top. Worked great.
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Re: Magazine locks

Postby Lelandwelds » 31 Jul 2017 22:31

The ATF has to inspect and approve this thing. The door must be 1/4 steel. It is lined with 4 inches of hardwood and no interior steel is exposed. I've seen two in person and six on youtube. The older ones are earth sheltered concrete half cylinders. Newer ones are converted cargo containers. You have to get a variance or ruling each time you are different from the statute. You have to do a bound log book like the FFL holders.

My understanding is the ATF is most concerned about theft of flash powder and electric ignitors. Thats why the focus on resisting destructive entry. Surprisingly, the state of Texas is the tough one to satisfy. The insurance requirement is a deal killer. Im still investigating.
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Re: Magazine locks

Postby Lelandwelds » 3 Aug 2017 23:18

I made my first mock up out of cardboard and duct tape. It works but the locks need to go on the door instead of frame to reduce wasted space.

My plan was use two of American A707 or the Pacific version. I just saw a BB youtube about the American bypass and the cheesy wafer "fix" which doesnt work. Pacific doesnt have this flaw, right?
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