Locks for humid environment

[Davis]

In my locksmithing work, one of our customers is a local swimming pool. Naturally, the humidity and somewhat corrosive nature of the environment takes its toll on the locks there. We've replaced a couple grade 2 levers recently that were wearing out. The place also uses some mortise cylinders. It's on Sargent LA keyway, if that makes a difference. The customer is asking about the possibility of marine type locks, such as might be used on boats, with the idea that they might hold up better to the humidity. Do any of you know if such a thing exists and where I'd look to find it in Western Canada? Or simply if using a better grade lock would help it last longer?

Davis

[Jacob Morgan]

Can you let us know which parts in the lock are corroding?

[huxleypig]

Disc detainers are usually the choice for damp environments. I know that a lot of ships also use Trioving but I don't know why, maybe they are 100% brass?

Anyway, I saw a really cool article on the internet a while back, some guy had a boat and he tested 3 different disc detainers for corrosion. I think he x-rayed them? The locks were Abus, Abloy and IFAM. The results were that the Abus did worst, Abloy 2nd and the IFAM lasted the best.

Abloy do some locks with a cap that goes over the keyway entrance for extreme environments, to keep out moisture.

[gumptrick]

I grew up in an area with a lot of marine activity--lots of boats around. I used to shop at marine stores for hardware and while I did see a lot of "locks" there, they were really more of a mechanical latch than a key-operated lock. Brass or stainless steel are the go-tos for marine hardware. The guys who wanted the old-school look used brass. The modern boats were equipped with stainless. Many makers make marine grade padlocks. Likewise they are either 100% brass (usually including the shackle) or they are 100% stainless.

I don't know enough about door hardware to know if there are any brands making them or not, but if someone did make a 100% brass lock that would be excellent. Where you get into trouble is when you have a lock made of a combination of different metals. Different metals in contact with each other + moisture is a recipe for galvanic corrosion. If there are pool chemicals or salt water around then the problem is worse.

Like huxley mentioned there are some "environmental" locks that comes with plastic or rubber covers. I have mixed thoughts about those. I used to have one to lock up a toolbox that was built into the bed of my shop truck. I bought it not because of corrosion, but because dirt and road grime (sand, etc.) would get up into the keyway and would make operating the lock difficult. The cover did a great job keeping the sand out, but I noticed that it actually would increase the retention of water whenever it rained. Most padlocks are made so that if they get wet the water can drain out the bottom of the lock. The rubber cover on my lock covered the bottom of the lock only, so it actually ended up trapping water inside because it couldn't drain out as easily. There were a couple times I'd go to get into that lock and would flip open the cover only to have nasty water drain out. I didn't own that truck long enough to see how the lock would hold up long-term but it would certainly something I would be cautious of. However I think some locks do that environmental protection cover better than others. For example the Master model 911 has rubber seals where the shackle goes through the cover so water shouldn't be able to enter the lock from the top. The cover over the keyhole fits close enough to exclude splashes and whatnot, but it's not water-tight so if any water did mange to get into the lock it could still drain out the bottom.

[demux]

I know that a lot of ships also use Trioving but I don't know why, maybe they are 100% brass?

I've noticed that as well, at least in the comparatively small sample set of ships I've been on. Always wondered if there was some technical reason for it, or if it's just because that's what's popular in the area of the shipyard where the ship was built. I am not by any means an expert on ships, but my understanding is there's a relatively few shipyards that build many of the large ships in service, and given the global nature of shipping, it at least stands to reason that you might have disproportionate representation of brands popular in those areas...

[Ralph_Goodman]

I am not by any means an expert on ships, but my understanding is there's a relatively few shipyards that build many of the large ships in service, and given the global nature of shipping, it at least stands to reason that you might have disproportionate representation of brands popular in those areas...

That sounds likely. But I would love to know if there is any reason that Trioving was chosen to be the lock the shipyards turned to.

What could the initial instinct have been to go with that company over others?

Also when I looked up "Trioving lock for sale" Google gave me an add for "Marine Locks". So there might be more to this than meets the eye.

[demux]

I am not by any means an expert on ships, but my understanding is there's a relatively few shipyards that build many of the large ships in service, and given the global nature of shipping, it at least stands to reason that you might have disproportionate representation of brands popular in those areas...

That sounds likely. But I would love to know if there is any reason that Trioving was chosen to be the lock the shipyards turned to.

What could the initial instinct have been to go with that company over others?

I wonder if it's just a general quality thing, the same way Schlage, Sargent, etc are popular in commercial installations here in the US.

Also when I looked up "Trioving lock for sale" Google gave me an add for "Marine Locks". So there might be more to this than meets the eye.

Definitely. Looking forward to seeing where this subject goes...

[Davis]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. As far as what parts are showing corrosion, the cylinders are showing the worst wear. The first lever I replaced was an entry function and was no longer being reliable in the lock/unlock spindle.

I'm mainly asking because one of the maintenance guys there is looking for pricing on some sort of marine hardware, in hopes that it will last longer than the off-shore Grade 2 levers that were initially installed. There's a part of me that wonders whether the problem may be not so much that they need "marine hardware," as that they may benefit from heavier-duty Grade 1 hardware that will last longer than the cheaper stuff. Obviously, if a cylinder is wearing out and the lock is still good, the cylinder can be replaced for much less cost than a whole lever.

[tjohn]

Not fond of Sargent OM levers regardless but I would bet a regular old offshore (my preferred is LSDA Clutch) with a Ilco Sargent cylinder and most importantly a heavy coating of lubricant (light grade oil on exposed metal chassis) prior to install lasts a decent time even on ones I've used on pool areas and exposed doors and such. If they aren't a high key turnover location (locks need rekeying at least every few years, where one can service the locks properly during rekey) then train them on lubrication maintenance.
but a good coating of lube on the chassis and entire outside trim during install will help with whatever you use!

[CarWashGuy]

I second lubrication preventative maintenance. A car wash environment is like a hurricane every day. Constant heavy mist along with strong winds from the blowers. Add in corrosive chemicals and you have quite a challenge keeping all the hydrolocs and electronics running, let alone locks. Once a week I include lubricating my locks into my regular maintenance routine. It has made a world of difference on my schlage cylinders and levers.

[Jacob Morgan]

Regarding corrosion prevention, a knife maker recommended to me a type of WD-40 that is formulated for corrosion protection.
https://www.wd40specialist.com/products/corrosion-inhibitor/
Have not used it on lock mechanisms, but it has given me good results in protecting bare steel. It stays put where you spray it. It is not the normal WD-40.

Another option would be grease designed for long-term gun storage. The Rig brand has been around forever. Could apply it with a stiff brush or a Q-tip. A tube of this would go a long way.
http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/oils-lubricants/rust-prevention/rig-reg-universal-gun-grease-prod31842.aspx

[gumptrick]

Lubrication is a great idea but you have to be careful regarding what lubricant to use.
The problem with many of them, including WD40, is that over time they will become gummy or sticky. That alone can cause problems with the small moving parts inside a lock. That stickiness can also attract and hold dirt, sand, etc. Once that happens the parts will either jam up or wear very quickly.

I would be very cautious about WD-40. It certainly does get sticky over time. About the only thing it is good for is displacing water (that's where the name came from. Water Displacer formula no 40). It's a mediocre lubricant. You can, however, mitigate the stickiness developing by using it frequently. If you get into a routine of spraying the locks once a week or something like that then I think you'd be OK.

Two products which I have used extensively (though not in locks) are LPS #3 and PCL. LPS #3 is an aerosol spray that "dries" to a soft waxy coating. I have used it for many years on ATVs/4x4s, motorcycles, metalworking machinery, and firearms. It never gets hard or gummy and has fantastic ant-corrosion properties. It does, however, form a soft coating that will trap debris. So I'd be cautious of using it if there is a lot of sand or dirt around. PCL is sort of an "all in one" product like WD-40. Cleans, lubricates, prevents rust. It is far more effective as a lubricant than WD-40 (IMHO), and I've also never had it get gummy or dry out.

[soksavik]

I am not by any means an expert on ships, but my understanding is there's a relatively few shipyards that build many of the large ships in service, and given the global nature of shipping, it at least stands to reason that you might have disproportionate representation of brands popular in those areas...

That sounds likely. But I would love to know if there is any reason that Trioving was chosen to be the lock the shipyards turned to.

What could the initial instinct have been to go with that company over others?

I wonder if it's just a general quality thing, the same way Schlage, Sargent, etc are popular in commercial installations here in the US.

Also when I looked up "Trioving lock for sale" Google gave me an add for "Marine Locks". So there might be more to this than meets the eye.

Definitely. Looking forward to seeing where this subject goes...

Trioving also has a huge market share in Norway in general, and shipbuilding was traditionally one of the core industries in western (coastal) Norway. I wonder if there's a correlation there. OTOH, Trioving was the result of a merger between Trio and Ving, each of which was a conglomerate of earlier companies. Back in the heyday of Norwegian shipbuilding, it would not have existed as a single company.

[Ralph_Goodman]

Trioving also has a huge market share in Norway in general, and shipbuilding was traditionally one of the core industries in western (coastal) Norway. I wonder if there's a correlation there. OTOH, Trioving was the result of a merger between Trio and Ving, each of which was a conglomerate of earlier companies. Back in the heyday of Norwegian shipbuilding, it would not have existed as a single company.

Fascinating! The company merger explains why I see the name written as "TrioVing"

I would love to know what your resources were. I would love to read more about that.

Also, it seems as though TrioVing is now under the banner of ASSA ABLOY. But on ASSA's website, their "Marine Locks" page refers to the products as VingCard. (I wonder if that will help us get to the bottom of this).

[demux]

Fascinating! The company merger explains why I see the name written as "TrioVing"

I would love to know what your resources were. I would love to read more about that.

Also, it seems as though TrioVing is now under the banner of ASSA ABLOY. But on ASSA's website, their "Marine Locks" page refers to the products as VingCard. (I wonder if that will help us get to the bottom of this).

Very much, I didn't know that either. Though I do remember when I was just a wee lad, staying in a hotel with my parents and grandparents on a family vacation that used the original VingCard system on the room doors (the plastic thing with holes punched out, like this):


At the time I had only ever seen pin tumbler locks, and I thought this was the coolest thing in the world. Probably one of the factors that helped me first get interested in locks/keys...