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How relevant is single pin picking in crimes?

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Re: How relevant is single pin picking in crimes?

Postby huxleypig » 9 Sep 2017 16:14

Check out some of the info from this talk I did a while back. I could not find out the exact numbers for anything, it is very difficult to ascertain lockpicking crime statistics with any real accuracy, some of the reasons for which I highlight. I have set the time to the relevant section of the video, in case tl;dr:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCO7dv6uMKo@t=8m50s[/youtube]

In case the YouTube video does not embed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCO7dv6uMKo&t=8m50s

It is my opinion that only the very highest profile of cases get forensically examined, lockpicking crime by its very nature leaves little trace.
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Re: How relevant is single pin picking in crimes?

Postby AngryHatter » 12 Sep 2017 22:26

"I certainly hope your not referring to my post as "arm chair psychology". There is mountains of empirical evidence to validate my claims on the impulsivity and anti-social tendencies of criminals. With regards to my claims of low-level crime being below "well-conditioned, trained and controlled" individuals in favor of private sector or governmental or military employment as a means of sustaining oneself, there is also mountains of statistical data to validate that as well.


With all due respect, calling out others for "arm chair psychology" with your credentials being "I work in the school system", then attempting to reinforce you logical-fallacies with name-calling (very juvenile and unprofessional) and antidotal, non-empirically backed evidence from a highly segmented portion of the population (adolescents in a school environment) is bad enough... But then you attempt project that onto the entire population??




I'm almost half-tempted to belief your trolling :lol: :lol:"
I wonder what prompted you to think I was speaking to you specifically? :oops:

My point was as locksmiths the talk of drugs, motivation and other peripheral items is beyond our ken. I have been opening locks for money for more years than I care to admit to.
A psychologist can speak to the whys.
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Re: How relevant is single pin picking in crimes?

Postby GWiens2001 » 12 Sep 2017 22:54

I believe he was trolling, and we should all let it end. A smiley might help, Bill. :D

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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Re: How relevant is single pin picking in crimes?

Postby Jacob Morgan » 12 Sep 2017 22:58

huxleypig wrote:Check out some of the info from this talk I did a while back. I could not find out the exact numbers for anything, it is very difficult to ascertain lockpicking crime statistics with any real accuracy, some of the reasons for which I highlight. I have set the time to the relevant section of the video, in case tl;dr:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCO7dv6uMKo@t=8m50s[/youtube]

In case the YouTube video does not embed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCO7dv6uMKo&t=8m50s

It is my opinion that only the very highest profile of cases get forensically examined, lockpicking crime by its very nature leaves little trace.


Very good presentation, thanks for posting it. You pointed out cases where criminals not only picked locks but picked previously unpickable locks or even invented new tools. In my few minutes of research in a prior post, several cases of picking in crimes in the USA were identified, including a notorious group of bank robbers from about 20 years ago--one of them took the Foley-Belsaw course and even used try-out key sets to steal getaway cars after they picked open bank doors.

The presentation above pointed out parallels between ethical computer hackers and independent lock researchers. That is the way to look at it. In defending lock picking as a hobby, one does not need to claim that criminals don't pick locks. They were doing that shortly after locks were invented, in fact they were likely doing it more often before there was such a thing as locksport. Independently researching lock vulnerabilities, and informing manufacturers of issues, and educating the public of risks, increases security.
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Re: How relevant is single pin picking in crimes?

Postby Ralph_Goodman » 14 Sep 2017 12:27

Jacob Morgan wrote:Very good presentation, thanks for posting it. You pointed out cases where criminals not only picked locks but picked previously unpickable locks or even invented new tools. In my few minutes of research in a prior post, several cases of picking in crimes in the USA were identified, including a notorious group of bank robbers from about 20 years ago--one of them took the Foley-Belsaw course and even used try-out key sets to steal getaway cars after they picked open bank doors.

The presentation above pointed out parallels between ethical computer hackers and independent lock researchers. That is the way to look at it. In defending lock picking as a hobby, one does not need to claim that criminals don't pick locks. They were doing that shortly after locks were invented, in fact they were likely doing it more often before there was such a thing as locksport. Independently researching lock vulnerabilities, and informing manufacturers of issues, and educating the public of risks, increases security.

I like the old adage in the ethical lock picking community that, "Criminals don't pick locks". It is more helpful than it is a hard and fast rule. All methods of entry are used in commercial settings to gain access to large sums of money, or information that is worth large sums of money. And in residential cases, the same could be said for the wealthy households.

Most people don't have to worry about this because they are unlikely to catch the eye of criminals with enough skill to target their property in such a way.

But whenever I write about security, I like to mention that you should be aware of your specific risks. I have heard quite a few cases (some brought up on this site) of women whose ex-boyfriend/husband was a locksmith. If you know people who pick locks, who also have a reason they might be targeting you, then you should worry about your susceptibility to lock picking.

To put most people at ease "Criminals don't pick locks" speaks to a more streamlined truth. A more accurate statement would be something like, "The average criminal who would target your home is not going to pick your lock. However, if there are extenuating circumstances that place you at personal risk of being targeted by criminals with reason or means to use covert entry practices, lock picking might be a concern."

The second statement might be truer, but it seems to draw too much attention to an unlikely outcome. And drawing that attention negatively affects the hobbyist and locksport communities, who pick locks for fun and for the benefit of the security of these products.

Maybe this analogy is helpful: "A police officer has a gun and authority. If the police officer is a bad person, they can use force and their position to justify crimes they commit. They have the means to commit violence and the means to get away with it. But having police is beneficial, and being a police officer does not make you a bad person solely because you have the means to do bad things. Also, the police that do act ethically create the circumstances to weed out those who are unethical. Without police, you would still have people who used authority and force to act unjustly, but you would lose the effective way of bringing bad people to justice."

Ethical lock pickers help to stop the unethical lock pickers. You will always have the unethical lock pickers. You make their lives easier if you prevent the ethical majority from doing their work.
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Re: How relevant is single pin picking in crimes?

Postby AngryHatter » 14 Sep 2017 16:04

^^^Well said.
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