New user, and I have a bitting question...

[Oicu812]

I've purchased a house, and every door has Kwikset locks, 5 pins (Ugh!), with the exception of the front door, which has a 6 pin Schlage deadbolt.

The previous owner only gave me one key for the front door, and one for (supposedly) the rest of the 4 exterior doors with Kwiksets. We promptly lost the KW key. The main issue is that this was the house owned by one of 5 family members who had all purchase one acre lots with at least one border to another member, if not two. I'm pretty sure that we were not given all the existing keys, although that doesn't matter because I mean to rekey them as a temporary measure until I can go with a Protec2 setup, once the coffers refill a bit after such a large purchase.

My question is this: Is there any functional reason why I should not pin these KW locks with a radical bitting? 71742 or something like that?

I've been picking for a while now, still learning (aren't we all?), but this will be my first attempt at rekeying locks. I will have 16 of them to do between key in knobs, and all exterior doors have double lock deadbolts. This was presumably a security measure, because 3 of the 4 exterior doors have glass in them.

I want to minimize the possibility of bumping / raking / b*tch picking / SPP on these guys.
Basically, I want to make it difficult enough that the wannabe intruder gives up for an easier target. I will be reinforcing the door jams, and putting in some secure sliding door hardware on this first, low cost pass. I've already purchased a large quantity of driver and key pins, and a couple of different lengths of spools. (I can't seem to find any serrated / mushrooms / T-pins in quantity at a reasonable rate, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated)

So, to reiterate: With a radical bitting, would the locks be easy enough to open with all the high / lows on the key? Or would the keys be difficult, and more prone to wear?

[Squelchtone]

Afaik, kwikset pins dont differ much in their depth from 1 to 6, which is why kwikset keys always look pretty flat. Schlage can do 1 to 9 depths which is why they look so jagged. The shape/chamfer of the bottom of the key pin also plays into this.

T pins are a Schlage thing. Best you can do is put spool pins in, you wont easily find mushroom or serrated pins for Kwikset. If you can budget to swap one lock a month to match the 1 schlage, in 6 months all will be swapped out.

*Or in mean time, insert blank kwikset keys into the locks you wont be using and break them off in the locks if you feel someone with a key may be coming around. You can still exit in case of fire, but nobody will be able to get in those other doors.

Repin the schlage as well in case you think the past owner kept one for themselves.

Squelchtone

Ps, I have to say that I'm not a fan of the term b*tch picking, I need to talk to BosnianBill and see if we can call it something else before it becomes a common thing.

[GWiens2001]

Don't go too radical with the bitting. MACS (Maximum Adjacent Cut Specification) for Kwikset is 4. So it would not be a good idea to put 71742 because 7-1=6.

Also, try not to do too deep a cut for the first bitting (closest to the key bow) since it weakens the key and makes it more likely to break off in the lock. Deep cuts further along in the bitting is not as much a concern, since it would be less likely to be subjected to the torque and pressure the first bitting would receive.

You might consider something like 53742 with spool driver pins for the first four pins, leaving a normal driver pin for the last one. That would likely give you the best pick resistance with a Kwikset.

Keep in mind that I am not a professional locksmith. I am a lockaholic, though. Others may be of differing opinions.

Gordon

[Oicu812]

Thank you gentlemen, for the fast responses on this. I love a nice, active forum.

[Shackle Jackal]

Afaik, kwikset pins dont differ much in their depth from 1 to 6, which is why kwikset keys always look pretty flat. Schlage can do 1 to 9 depths which is why they look so jagged. The shape/chamfer of the bottom of the key pin also plays into this.

T pins are a Schlage thing. Best you can do is put spool pins in, you wont easily find mushroom or serrated pins for Kwikset. If you can budget to swap one lock a month to match the 1 schlage, in 6 months all will be swapped out.

*Or in mean time, insert blank kwikset keys into the locks you wont be using and break them off in the locks if you feel someone with a key may be coming around. You can still exit in case of fire, but nobody will be able to get in those other doors.

Repin the schlage as well in case you think the past owner kept one for themselves.

Squelchtone

Ps, I have to say that I'm not a fan of the term b*tch picking, I need to talk to BosnianBill and see if we can call it something else before it becomes a common thing.

I don't like B!#@$ picking either, I personally use the term "Bully pick"

[tpark]

To reduce the chance of a pick gun/bump key working, the "Bump Halt" pins are very effective. What Gordon had suggested is good too - the spools really help for pick/bump resistance, but of course it's still possible to SPP it, just harder. Random picking/raking is much harder, as the lock will go into a false set.
You can buy spools here:
http://www.lockpicks.com/spool-top-pins.html
They sell other kits like security pin kit from LAB. It is kind of expensive and more useful if you're a locksmith and generally need this kind of thing.

[Raymond]

Kwikset locks work well with a 61616 or 72727 combination but not a 71717. The MACs is too extreme.
Putting a spool above a 7 cut is a waste because the 7 pin is already flush with the top of the plug. The bottom of a spool barely catches with a 6 pin. Put your security pins above #5 or less bottom pins.
Breaking off a key in the outside lock is very easy but is too destructive. Better that you simply remove the outside tailpiece so that if it is picked or someone uses a key the plug just spins. Blank keys are very easy to remove anyway unless they are glued in or twisted before driving them in.

[tpark]

Here are some cutting specifications for kwikset and schlage locks.
https://www.lsamichigan.org/Tech/Kwikset_KeySpecs.pdf
https://www.lsamichigan.org/Tech/SCHLAGE_KeySpecs.pdf

[tjohn]

Do not exceed your MACS especially 61616

[demux]

Ps, I have to say that I'm not a fan of the term b*tch picking, I need to talk to BosnianBill and see if we can call it something else before it becomes a common thing.

I don't like B!#@$ picking either, I personally use the term "Bully pick"

I've heard (can't remember if it was on this forum or somewhere else) the term "snap picking" for this method of attack. It kind of conjures thoughts of a pick gun, but I think sounds a lot better (and if you think about what a pick gun does, is also kind of technically accurate).

[billdeserthills]

You are on a Lockpicking Forum, everybody on here likes to pick locks and
Kwikset isn't considered a challenge, so I don't understand why you want to even use them?

I just got my occupy certificate for my house & because my 'appliance suite' (that's where ya buy the refrigerator,
range, microwave & dishwasher, you get ripped off x4) is coming next week & I put on a set of Medeco deadbolts
and I consider that barely passable security, some folks on here are proficient at picking medeco, but it should slow
someone down, at least for a little while--likely take a minute to go & find a rock to throw throw my window--I still
doubt my appliances will be leaving by the window

[demux]

Better that you simply remove the outside tailpiece so that if it is picked or someone uses a key the plug just spins. Blank keys are very easy to remove anyway unless they are glued in or twisted before driving them in.

Depends on the kind of lock. If he's talking about a KIK lock instead of a deadbolt, I believe most of the Kwikset ones have that single driver bar that goes all the way through from the inside thumbturn to engaging the back of the plug. It's been a while since I've had one apart, but I don't recall it looking like it would be easy (at least nondestructively) to break that engagement without also rendering the thumbturn inoperable.

Another option, if OP is willing/able to remove and replace the pin retaining clip on the shell, would be to just replace some or all of the pins and springs with long pieces of smooth rod with no breaks. That'd make it pretty hard to operate the cylinder with keys, picks, or other.

[Oicu812]

I don't really WANT to use the stupid Kwiksets. I just don't have the funds right now to do much of anything else. Otherwise, I would be putting in commercial hardware with good cores. I was thinking something compatible with euro style dimple locks.

So, for now I have to work with what is installed. I had looked at the silly crimped on cap holding the bible in place, but I hadn't yet worked through the significance of that. So the tail pieces will be coming off all exterior Kwikset cylinders, period. The only way that you will be able to enter the house with either a key or a form of picking will be the front door, which is not the usual burglar favorite. I will need to also secure the release ropes for the garage doors, so that the old coat hanger wire attack will not work, either. Every exterior door has a double keyed deadbolt, so breaking the glass won't buy you much. A least the original owner had that much insight.

The other thing I am planning on is the 3M hurricane film on the sliding patio doors, and front and back of the glass in the two exterior doors.

This doesn't need to be Riker's Island, it just needs to be hardened enough to stop most everyone but the advanced guys on this site. Who I doubt will be dropping by my place.

[Oicu812]

I haven't yet taken apart a Kwikset KiK yet, so I don't know if they have the identical tail pieces that the deadbolts do.

I'm not yet sure what to do with a "one long bar actuator" setup. The Mrs. and I use the pool all the time, so we would normally need to open those from the outside day~to~day. I guess those doors will have to rely on the unpickable outside deadbolt.

[Squelchtone]

it just needs to be hardened enough to stop most everyone but the advanced guys on this site. Who I doubt will be dropping by my place.

I know this is probably meant as a joke, but I assure you none of us are hardened criminals or cat burglars. There are more locksmiths, feds, cops, hobby pickers, and lock collectors here than bad guys.