Gary floor safe missing parts?

by **NatGlick** » 25 Nov 2017 13:17

Hello, my name is Nat and I’m a newb here. Recently, I purchased a Gary floor safe (#21?) at an estate sale. The outer door/lock was open, but no combination was available. I gave $30 for it, as the folks who ran the sale just wanted it gone. I’m sure you know this monster is quite stout! This morning I removed the back plate from the door/lid and figured out the combination (by watching a video of a similar lock/door/lid). So I can get the lock (S&G 6714) to open just fine, but can’t get the bolts to retract without manually depressing the “cam”.

My question is regarding the retraction/engagement of the bolts. When I removed the back plate, it seemed like it was spring-loaded, and the last screw came out with difficulty. Please excuse my lack of proper terminology; I’m sure I’ll make a hash of describing the various parts. I can see/comprehend how the bolts move in and out, but I’m stumped on how the mechanism works as a whole. I also suspect that not all the parts are present and accounted for.

When I replace the back plate, I assume the “pin” that is welded to the plate should engage the “cam” that rides in the “groove” in the “disc” to which the lock body and bolts attach. Here is the first problem: the back plate pin seems too long, as it contacts the pin on which the cam rides before the backing plate seats flush with the lid/door. Is the cam pin supposed to be spring-loaded?

Second problem, which is related to the first: once the lock is opened, I don’t understand the manner in which the “cam” should retract, allowing the plate to rotate, thus allowing the bolts to retract. Am I making any sense? One thing I noticed that leads me to believe there are missing parts is that there is a hole drilled at the end of the backing plate pin to accept a cotter pin or some such. Am I perhaps missing an additional spring/plunger/cam? One other thing I don’t understand is that the “cam” has a flat machined on the end. Its purpose is not readily apparent, but if there are parts I don’t have, that makes sense.

Other than the fact that I cannot get the bolts to retract without intervention, the safe is in lovely condition. The inner door is missing, but without the 2 keys, it’s not much good to me anyway. I have searched the Interwebz for a drawing of this mechanism/assembly, but came up dry. I suppose that’s not surprising given the nature of a safe’s purpose...

Any assistance you can render to help me understand this mechanism and/or source missing bits will be greatly appreciated. I hope I’m not asking too many questions, or the wrong ones. I’m just trying to get this thing working.

Thanks in advance!!

by **Squelchtone** » 25 Nov 2017 16:44

Excellent first post, you've described things very well, included pics, and realize that due to nature of safes, info on them isnt fully available to the general public. I wish every new member was as well organized and written as you.

Your safe door looks like a Gary / Allied E-70 model.

I believe there are some exploded parts diagrams floating around for these. That bit you've been manually pressing is the relocker, in case someone punches the lock and back cover off, the bolts cannot be easily retracted. Is your relocker plunger under spring pressure? Or is the spring possibly missing?

I have a video of a similar head being serviced, it does not have your lock style though but the plate the bolts are attached to has the same style relocker groove.

If bitbuster sees this, he will know more, I'll try to find those parts diagrams tonight.

by **NatGlick** » 25 Nov 2017 20:33

Squelchtone,
Thank you for getting me moving in the right direction, and for the kind words! Yes, the relocker plunger is under spring tension, but there is nothing pressing down on it to disengage it from the bolt plate. I’m sure there is a part missing that bears upon the plunger, but I’m still concerned about the interference fit between the plunger pin and the backing plate pin. I might try tapping the plunger pin with a drift/hammer to see if it has worked its way out over the years.

I’ve made a (very!) rudimentary sketch of the interference. Basically, when the backing plate is in position, the pins touch each other before the plate lies flush to the head. Also, the plunger just sits there as there is nothing on the backing plate pin to put tension on it. Can you visualize what I am attempting to describe?

Anyway, no particular hurry on this thing. I just want to figure it out to satisfy my curiosity. If you can find the diagram(s), that would be awesome. Also, if there ARE parts missing, is there a resource available to source what I need?

Again, my thanks. I just ordered a new S&G 6730-100 to replace the rather crappy dial lock on my import gunsafe. Am watching videos from S&G on how to correctly install it. Can’t wait!!

NG

by **Squelchtone** » 26 Nov 2017 0:08

So in order to prime the relocker plunger as you would a mouse trap you have to press the back cover and that pin welded to it down so the plunger is pressed, then screw in the 3 or 4 back cover screws. With that back cover pin constantly pressing against the plunger, the cam plate the bolts are attached to should be able to rotate and withdraw the e bolts once the s&g lock's bolt is retracted and you keep turning the dial counter clockwise.

Is the back cover about 1/4 inch from where it should be bottoming out? If so then press it into place and that plunger should give enough so plate touches the metal where the screws thread into.

Squelchtone

by **Squelchtone** » 26 Nov 2017 1:03

Hi,
I checked my exploded parts views and they are for STAR brand safes made by Major, not by Gary. similar but not the same.

If your finger can press the plunger and then twisting the dial retracts the bolts and allows the cam plate to turn back and fourth, then the pin of what you call the backing place (I'd call it the back cover, but that's just me) should also press against the plunger and the round plate should be able to rotate and withdraw and extend the 3 round bolts. I don't think you're missing any parts at this point.

Squelchtone

by **NatGlick** » 26 Nov 2017 1:06

So, with the back cover mounted, the 2 pins are touching end to end. The plunger is hollow/tubular, so the pin that’s welded to the cover doesn’t bear on the plunger in any way. I think there should be a cross pin or something similar that would go through the small hole drilled in the end of the cover pin. Of course, I’m just spitballing here...

I will try to get better pics tomorrow.

Good night, and thanks again.

by **Squelchtone** » 26 Nov 2017 1:11

I have a friend and one of our members here in Duvall, which is near you, who owns a lock business and might be able to look at your safe door and figure out if anything is missing. Is that something that would be worth something to you? he may also know some other local safe technicians in your rainy area who may know more than he does..

by **NatGlick** » 27 Nov 2017 21:08

First, thank you for looking up the drawings. It’s a shame they are for a different model. I really appreciate you going the extra mile, Squelchtone.

I’m going to hold off on taking it to a pro for a bit. I bought this thing as a project, I have no immediate need for it and I’m hoping someone will chime in who owns a comparable model. I don’t want to sound like an ingrate; I hope you understand where I’m coming from. I’m just tickled pink that I was able to decipher the combination (with a spot of help from the Interwebz). I already know worlds more about locks and safes than I did a week ago!

Again, my thanks. I’m hoping to find more projects so I can participate more around here!

by **Squelchtone** » 27 Nov 2017 22:25

no worries at all and that guy I know is not really a safe pro, but he is a big lock hound and good with mechanical things.

pop in any time and give us your progress updates, thanks!
Squelchtone

by **djed** » 29 Nov 2017 12:05

Hope these help

by **NatGlick** » 3 Dec 2017 9:37

Your relocker is different than mine, but the linkage is more elegant. What brand/model is this?

Thanks for posting!

by **djed** » 3 Dec 2017 23:13

It's a Gary.

by **NatGlick** » 4 Dec 2017 21:09

I wonder if yours is older or newer than mine...

by **djed** » 5 Dec 2017 4:03

My guess (because of the lock) is that mine is older but I'm honestly not sure.

If it matters, mine is serial #28071.

by **Squelchtone** » 6 Dec 2017 19:43

I watch craigslist pretty much every day for any interesting safes that come up. A few days ago I saw a safe head with a (in) floor safe body, and it looked like OPs Gary safe head but a bigger S&G dial. The seller wanted $125 mentioned the lock may need some work, so I thought I'd let it sit for a while. Today he posted it for $100 and I emailed him saying I work on safes and wanted to see what the lock problem was before I committed to buying, he said sure and we met up.

He didn't have the combo, but had worked out enough to turn the wheels by hand under the fence and get it to open. I showed him how dialing order worked. The safe body itself is at least 500 lbs, we had fun getting it into the back of my Jeep. I almost walked away with just the safe head, which I think I just bought to answer this post's questions, :lol:

But hey, now I have a whole safe and I only paid $80 which is what I offered. He was like, yeah but the safe works now so suddenly it's worth more, but he was nice and met me at my offer.

Related to this post, I noticed pretty quickly that the back cover relocker spring took some effort to compress in order to close the cover and put the screws back in. Also took me a minute to figure out that the cut in the relocker "cam" needed to be oriented in a specific location/position to that cut made in the top of it.

The pin welded to my back cover also has a little hole in it like on your lock, but it doesn't seem to serve any purpose that I know of. My cover is 6 inch diameter, the door is 3.5 inches thick, and that pin welded to the back cover is just shy of 4 cm (13/16ths inch). From the wheel the 3 bolts are attached to, to the ledge the back cover sits on, is 3mm.

I found that the pin on the back cover doesnt actually press against the pin/post that the cam and spring are on. It presses on the cam where the cut is and keeps the cam compressed low enough for the bolt plate to be able to rotate back and fourth.

I think the pics will help, here they are:

This thing's a beast!