Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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I am trying to learn manipulation and have a Lagard cutaway and a s&g 6730, the latter I mounted myself. The s&g works fine, although there is a heavy amount of drag. When I try the exercise to feel for how many wheels there are in the pack, it's obvious when I pick up another wheel because the drag increases quite a bit, whereas the Lagard is subtle.
Is this normal for this brand? I'm almost inclined to think the wheels need to be removed and lubed, but before I go taking everything apart I thought I'd ask here. The lock is new but I'm wondering if the sub zero temperatures during shipping may have caused it.
Hey good luck with the learning experience. Does your lock have an allen socket and a small gear on the inside bottom of the case between the wheels and the bolt? If so, insert an allen wrench into the socket and adjust the resistance applied to the wheels. If there is no adjuster, lubing the wheels where they contact the wheel post may help. Do not get grease on the fly. Also, at the bottom of the wheel stack is a large brass washer that may be curved. This applies resistance. So flatten it out to about half the curve and put everything back together.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
Hi, You said the lock is new, is it new to you or brand new and how do you have it mounted or to what? Any chance that the spindle is screwed one or two revolutions too tight to the dial ring?
If you turn all wheels right and then reverse direction, can you turn the dial with 1 finger back and fourth untl you pick up all wheels right again?
I could make a video of picking up the wheels on my factory cutaway S&G or you could make one showing us the dialing, we could compare and see what's different.
Raymond, I assume you mean this (I know...duh)? When I get home I will try loosening it and see if that helps.
Squelchtone, here is the video. It is brand new, it just arrived from MBA on Monday. I CAN turn it with one finger, but as you can see, with each wheel picked up it resists quite a bit more. I don't believe it's screwed too tight to the dial ring, as I had it too loose before (could pull the dial ring out a few mm) and it still dragged.
That's pretty much how mine turns, maybe that's just how S&Gs are. I have some Lagard 3330's in the basement, I'll have to see how they feel compared to the 6730.
regarding that adjustment thing under the wheelpack, I've always read that it is factory set and not to mess with it, but hey its your lock.
I'll try to put a video up tonight of my S&G picking up wheels
Squelchtone wrote:That's pretty much how mine turns, maybe that's just how S&Gs are. I have some Lagard 3330's in the basement, I'll have to see how they feel compared to the 6730.
regarding that adjustment thing under the wheelpack, I've always read that it is factory set and not to mess with it, but hey its your lock.
I'll try to put a video up tonight of my S&G picking up wheels
Squelchtone
I won't mess with it for now, then. Like I said it works just fine, but I know my Lagard 3300 is a lot more subtle as far as resistance goes when picking up a wheel so I didn't know if something was off with the S&G or if that's by design. Thanks, and curious to see what you find regarding your locks.
Heavy drag is more tiresome when manipulating, but due to the feedback of the lock it is easier to know where the wheels are. For real use I have read that safe technicians like to configure locks with more drag so people do not rotate the wheel so fast and thereby put a lot of strain on the lock parts when flies collide.
MartinHewitt wrote:Heavy drag is more tiresome when manipulating, but due to the feedback of the lock it is easier to know where the wheels are. For real use I have read that safe technicians like to configure locks with more drag so people do not rotate the wheel so fast and thereby put a lot of strain on the lock parts when flies collide.
I was just thinking that there's a silver lining in every cloud so this could actually work to my advantage as a total noob...lol
Eazy123 wrote:I was just thinking that there's a silver lining in every cloud so this could actually work to my advantage as a total noob...lol
Yup! But I think for the experienced person low drag is better, because it allows to rotate the dial faster and hence have a faster opening time. With my 6730 I can put my fingertip somewhere at the edge of the dial and rotate it around in a rather controlled way multiple rotations. With high-drag locks I have to really grab the dial. Because you can change the drag on your lock to some extend you can loosen it up later. Although some locks can be changed only between heavy drag and real heavy drag.
Howdy, Yes, that is the torque adjuster. Yes, it is OK to adjust it --- that is what they put it in there for. The 6700's don't have the adjustment. They are cheaper. I have seen only one example where this overly assertive manager took great delight in flipping his dial around. I didn't know this until after I had tried to manipulate the safe open and ended up drilling it. THE FLY WAS BROKEN COMPLETELY IN HALF! When I installed a new lock and watched him open it, it was obvious why it had broken.
One reason not to have the wheels with some resistance is so if the operator 'flips' the dial the momentum will not spin the 2nd and 3rd wheels past the opening number. Definitely make them easy to turn, just not completely freewheeling. If they are tight, many people cannot stop on a specific number. If the wheel is tight it can jump when turned at very slow speed and you can miss your number. I have to ask each customer if the dial resistance is suitably as comfortable as what they are used to.
The general rule on adjusting the dial to drive wheel tightness I learned from installing S&G 8500's and 2937 locks for the military. Hold the drive wheel even with the nose of the lever. Tighten the dial until snug. Loosen it back to '0', and then loosen it one full turn. If the distance from 'tight' to '0' is nearly a full revolution, you can stop there if you feel comfortable with it. I tend to prefer there to be less wobble.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
Raymond wrote:Howdy, Yes, that is the torque adjuster. Yes, it is OK to adjust it --- that is what they put it in there for. The 6700's don't have the adjustment. They are cheaper. I have seen only one example where this overly assertive manager took great delight in flipping his dial around. I didn't know this until after I had tried to manipulate the safe open and ended up drilling it. THE FLY WAS BROKEN COMPLETELY IN HALF! When I installed a new lock and watched him open it, it was obvious why it had broken.
One reason not to have the wheels with some resistance is so if the operator 'flips' the dial the momentum will not spin the 2nd and 3rd wheels past the opening number. Definitely make them easy to turn, just not completely freewheeling. If they are tight, many people cannot stop on a specific number. If the wheel is tight it can jump when turned at very slow speed and you can miss your number. I have to ask each customer if the dial resistance is suitably as comfortable as what they are used to.
The general rule on adjusting the dial to drive wheel tightness I learned from installing S&G 8500's and 2937 locks for the military. Hold the drive wheel even with the nose of the lever. Tighten the dial until snug. Loosen it back to '0', and then loosen it one full turn. If the distance from 'tight' to '0' is nearly a full revolution, you can stop there if you feel comfortable with it. I tend to prefer there to be less wobble.
Thank you so much - that was the issue! Just a half-turn counter clockwise and everything is nice and smooth now. Thank you, Raymond!
Raymond wrote:The general rule on adjusting the dial to drive wheel tightness I learned from installing S&G 8500's and 2937 locks for the military. Hold the drive wheel even with the nose of the lever. Tighten the dial until snug. Loosen it back to '0', and then loosen it one full turn. If the distance from 'tight' to '0' is nearly a full revolution, you can stop there if you feel comfortable with it. I tend to prefer there to be less wobble.
I honestly do not understand this. "Tighten the dial"/"'0'" refers to the drive cam and spline key or to the torque adjustment device? What means "loosen it back to 0"? When I know this the remainder of the description might be clear or maybe not.
I got frustrated with the LaGard and went back to the S&G. After a couple of days I finally got it open this morning (and without looking, lol)! What a great feeling...
The 6730 is a lot more obvious when it hits the contact points than the LaGard is, I've found.
On the 3330 the wheels move around off-center. So there is a big chance that one wheel is hiding the gate of another wheel. The 6730 is really the best lock for beginners that I know off.
