Found an old wall safe

[Just_Mike]

Found this old safe after a house fire. Dial says Herring-Hall-Marvin Safe Co. Hamilton, O

From searching all I could find was someone selling an advertisement for it claiming its from 1910. The ad itself does not have a date.

Looking to see if anyone knows anymore about this safe, mostly looking for the dialing pattern.

[Squelchtone]

neat! I think I also found your 1910 ad:



let me look through some old books..

[Just_Mike]

Thanks, ya thats the ad I found. Thinking it might be cool to restore and have hiding behind a picture.

[Squelchtone]

Your dialing order should be:

4L (dial Left past the 1st number 3 times and stop on it the 4th time around)
3R (dial Right past the 2nd number 2 times and stop on it the 3rd time around)
2L (dial Left past the 3rd number 1 time, and stop on it the 2nd time around)
1R (dial Right until dial stops dead on 32 at which point the 6 bolts are retracted)

pull door towards you, and rotate entire door clockwise around the top pin.

Do you have the combination somewhere? dialing order is only half the battle, without a combination you'll have to dial every possible number from 0-70, 0-70, 0-70.

hope this helps,
Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

if you had x-ray vision, this is what your safe door looks like looking straight through the metal into the insides. There are 6 locking bolts around the edge of the door, and the wheel gates all line up around the top in order for the roller fence to fall in and then as the dial is turned towards 32 the bolts are retracted.

[Just_Mike]

Thanks for the info. Don't have the combo unfortunately. Playing with it to see if I can manipulate it. The more I know about it the better. The x-ray is helpful and turning back to 32 is a part that I was really missing.

[Squelchtone]

I have a theory. Your dial has those 3 screws on it.. that doesnt look stock. Your safe may have been drilled and scoped behind the dial. If the hole is still behind the dial you could possibly shine a pen light in there and see the wheels lining up. Can you remove those 3 screws and then try to wiggle the knob/dial and see if you can pull it off the door? Curious to see under the dial.

Thanks
Squelchtone

[femurat]

Interesting theory, Squelchy. Have you seen dials repaired with three screws in the past? I haven't. This makes your theory even more interesting!

Keep us updated, Just_Mike.

Cheers

[Squelchtone]

Interesting theory, Squelchy. Have you seen dials repaired with three screws in the past? I haven't. This makes your theory even more interesting!

Keep us updated, Just_Mike.

Cheers

I've seen dials with dial puller marks left behind in that same pattern. Maybe the last owner needed more grip and had screws installed so they could turn the dial easier? I guess we'll find out how deep those screws go once OP takes them out.

[Just_Mike]

Pulled the screws off and they don't look stock. Each spot on the dial was ground flat and the holes are not perfectly centered on the flat spots. Probed them and they only go in about 1/2 inch. Both theories seem possible. All thought the screws are not very comfortable as a grip. Ill work on getting the dial off and see if its been drilled.

[Just_Mike]

Looks like they might have been placed there for grip. Crafted a dial puller and it wouldn't budge. Im thinking its a threaded shaft and you need access to the inside to remove the dial.

[Squelchtone]

Looks like they might have been placed there for grip. Crafted a dial puller and it wouldn't budge. Im thinking its a threaded shaft and you need access to the inside to remove the dial.

Good effort man, that was worth a try and I should have mentioned that it might be crimped or splined from the inside.

I'm gonna do some math and work up some combinations you can try.

How wide is your black and white dial with the numbers around it? 2.5 inch, 3 inch?

Have a good weekend
Squelchtone

[Just_Mike]

Its a 3in. dial.

I also have been thinking of a few things. The screws might have not been for grip when dialing the combo but for grip when retracting the bolts. It was mounted in the floor so gravity could have been putting friction on the bolts making them a bit harder to turn. Probably will never know the real reason for them.

Im also thinking the dialing pattern may be R-L-R-L. Reason for this is the drive cam gate is at 11-16 and the nose is flat on the right side. Going left on the final rotation the leaver would drop into the drive cam and then make contact at 16 to rotate the bolts then continuing left its a short distance to 32.

[Squelchtone]

Its a 3in. dial.

I also have been thinking of a few things. The screws might have not been for grip when dialing the combo but for grip when retracting the bolts. It was mounted in the floor so gravity could have been putting friction on the bolts making them a bit harder to turn. Probably will never know the real reason for them.

Im also thinking the dialing pattern may be R-L-R-L. Reason for this is the drive cam gate is at 11-16 and the nose is flat on the right side. Going left on the final rotation the leaver would drop into the drive cam and then make contact at 16 to rotate the bolts then continuing left its a short distance to 32.

Dialing pattern is straight out of a book written by a very well known expert so I'm gonna stick to last turn being Right to 32.

The xray pic I posted is looking through the door, not looking from the inside while the door is already open. I get what youre saying about feeling the drive cam gate when you hit the fence and the distance being shorter in one direction. Im just going by the experts book for now at least.