Medeco-Sargent LFIC

[Raymond]

I am having to deal with an interesting lock problem. A business has LFIC Sargent cores in their locks. On several doors they want to convert to Medeco. I have the Medeco-Sargent cores but do not know the formulas to properly pin the control chambers. I have done normal Sargent LFIC in the past and normal Medeco but this combination has confused me. Does anyone have experience working with this combination?

[Tyler J. Thomas]

I’m confused. Which manufacturers core do you need help with?

[Raymond]

Yeah, I am confused too. The cores are designed to fit into original Sargent housings. But, the new key is Medeco Biaxial with the sidebar and slider. The core locks in place with the normal Sargent control lug, on the right, in spaces 3 and 4. I just do not know how to integrate the control pins in with the normal bottom and master pins. Right now I have taken the core completely apart and am trying to just make it work.

[jeffmoss26]

Medeco cores designed to fit Sargent - part number 322401 (P)

[Squelchtone]

Hi Raymond,
Is the control lug sleeve only in the pin 3 and pin 4 location or is it as long as the main shear line for all 5 or 6 pins?

If it's only at pins 3 and 4, you'll need to pin up those stacks with change key pins to operate the tail piece, and then some master wafers at pins 3 and 4 to allow the control key to turn the lug. pins 1,2,5, 6 will remain the same as the change key, as far as I know. control and change key angles will be the same.

someone gutting one on youtube:


cute trick to pick Medeco LFIC to change and then rotate keyway to 180 and overlift pins 3 and 4 to get to control



Squelchtone

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Medeco 32 Series cores do not require build-up or control pins. The control lug function is handled by the rules governing key bittings.

[Squelchtone]

Medeco 32 Series cores do not require build-up or control pins. The control lug function is handled by the rules governing key bittings.

Are you directing that towards what I wrote? If so, and if you're saying that the change key and control key bittings in 3rd and 4th pin stack are the same, then what stops a user with a change key from accidentally removing the core? wouldnt their bitting be cut deeper, and the control key shallower and use master wafers at stack 3 and 4 for the purpose of being at the right shear line to throw the control lug?

or is it the same key pin length for both purposes but the key root depth is different at cuts 3 and 4 thus lifting the pin to either operating shearline or up to the lug in order to throw it?

Help me understand if I have this all wrong,
Squelchtone

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Medeco 32 Series cores do not require build-up or control pins. The control lug function is handled by the rules governing key bittings.

Are you directing that towards what I wrote? If so, and if you're saying that the change key and control key bittings in 3rd and 4th pin stack are the same, then what stops a user with a change key from accidentally removing the core? wouldnt their bitting be cut deeper, and the control key shallower and use master wafers at stack 3 and 4 for the purpose of being at the right shear line to throw the control lug?

or is it the same key pin length for both purposes but the key root depth is different at cuts 3 and 4 thus lifting the pin to either operating shearline or up to the lug in order to throw it?

Help me understand if I have this all wrong,
Squelchtone

Well since Medeco has documents currently hosted online available to the public that details what I'm about to say I presume this isn't sensitive or privileged information so I'll share:

The coded difference for full step increment systems, Original or Biaxial or whatever, between shearlines is 3. Therefore the control key is 3 depths shallower than the deepest operating cut. This allows the same bottom pin or bottom pin plus master pin(s) to reach both shearlines for each key.

Adding more master pins to achieve this same effect would create incidental master keys and potential key interchange issues.

[Raymond]

Thanks, That was exactly the info I was looking for.