After watching BosnianBill's last video ) He couldn't pick the lock, because the person who sent him the lock made the 5th pin bind so low, that if you wanted to set the 6th, you would overset the 5th every time. I commented there, but got no answer, so asking it here too Why doesn't manufacturers implement this "feature"? Is it because it weakens the key for daily use? Or we would just figure it out and make picks shafts even thinner?
Because most people who would enter your place without permission don't sit and pick the lock. SPP is an anachronism as far as crime is concerned. There are a myriad of ways to enter that are faster and less conspicuous.
Yea, I get that, always find the weakest link. But what if I made sure all other spots are covered, then the lock is the weakspot. Making them impossible to pick and nobody can enter.
Drake122 wrote:Yea, I get that, always find the weakest link. But what if I made sure all other spots are covered, then the lock is the weakspot. Making them impossible to pick and nobody can enter.
Nothing is unpickable to a skilled enough picker. Am only an intermediate level picker myself, not an advanced level picker. But there are people out there who can do amazing things with picks. Femurat and Farmerfreak are two that jump to mind. Squelchtone has made a video of himself picking a Medeco cam lock one-handed. Farmerfreak has made videos of himself picking with his feet, and even picking a BiLock while wearing ski gloves.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
I watch a lot of bosnianbills videos. I have seen him pick locks like that one pictured above. He oversets the lower pins and then rakes them and somehow they pop back out and it opens. There's always a way.
I like the trick with the wafers and T pins with extra holes in the cylinder. You pick that and the T pins fall into these extra holes and the lock is done. Its not going open or closed.
If you take a person out of the south and teach them to talk without an accent, do they have "withdrawl"?
I agree with all of the above, but I also think that there are manufacturing, reliability and profit margin concerns on the half of the lock manufacturer.
You are correct with the above Drake, a cut that low would weaken the key prematurely, and not only because the cut leaves so little meat, but because the extra large pin would be harder on the other cuts around it with the extra force required to move the pin out of the way. On the manufacturing side, it could excessively difficult to produce the lock in this fashion, or simply something that could not be done easily by machine tools. And same too for cost, a heckuva lot of locks are produced 'to a price', one that the manufacturer thinks the market will bear, sells well, and keeps a healthy margin for them.
There are unpickable locks, currently anyway. The Abloy Protec and Protec 2 series are great examples of this, but you will pay for the privilege of owning one.
Drake122 wrote:ock made the 5th pin bind so low, that if you wanted to set the 6th, you would overset the 5th every time.
I have also wondered why lock manufacturers haven't made simple changes that would drastically increase the pick resistance of their locks. From a cost to produce standpoint it seems logical to implement what you have mentioned.
Having a high pin in the last position and a low pin before it would drastically improve the pick resistance of most locks. Especially when it's paired with certain keyways and binding order. I think having a zig zag style keyway (something like the EVVA EPS or GPI but with intersecting teeth) and having the low pin/high pin in the rear would make it very difficult to pick with standard tools. The manufacturer could also change the tolerances so that the last pin is also the last to bind.
There is a Protec pick tool. No details, please, since this is open forum. Even the EVVA MCS has been picked recently.
Agree that simple changes can improve picking resistance. But by always having a low cut followed by a high cut will reduce the number of key differs.
Commando Lock Company haunts this forum and sent locks to some of us to test as long as we would provide feedback to them for improvement ideas, many of which they implemented. Wish more companies had the same desire to improve their product.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
The reason is because anything man can create some other person can destroy or circumvent Even the strongest rated safe, a TRTL 60x6 is only rated to be resistant to opening for 1 hour
Protec pick tool? I stand corrected! I pulled one apart for the first time yesterday just before that post, and with all that junk in there, I thought we might have been some time out before we saw something like that. I'm impressed.. and off to google
AngryHatter wrote:Because most people who would enter your place without permission don't sit and pick the lock. SPP is an anachronism as far as crime is concerned. There are a myriad of ways to enter that are faster and less conspicuous.
Most people want convenience. A friend recently had a new front door installed and it came with a Euro cylinder probably of Chinese origin with dimple keys. She wanted extra keys - key cutting kiosks could not do it. Nor could a full service locksmith (but they sold her a lock box to get round the problem). This was not really satisfactory so I suggested she buy a new Euro cylinder with 'C4' profile keys (most common profile in Australasia) which she did and I fitted it for her. Of course the 'C4' cylinder was easier to pick, keys easy to copy, etc but convenience was her main concern. Lockwood use slightly rounded drivers for ordinary 'C4' domestic cylinders to minimise problems with inaccurate key duplication. Ordinary customers want convenience ahead of security. This sort of query is similar to one on alt.locksmithing where the writer wondered why Master combo padlock override keys were too readily available. This was not Master's problem but because stockists of these padlocks order them in bulk with the same override key and onsold them to institutions. Of course Master could market a combo padlock similar to a S&G combo with a high security override cylinder but it would be so expensive no one would buy it.
peterwn wrote:Of course Master could market a combo padlock similar to a S&G combo with a high security override cylinder but it would be so expensive no one would buy it.
And I think this is the real reason right here. Consumers don't want to pay $30-$200 for the extra security to lock up their swimming trunks at the local rec center. They want cheap $5 locks from Walmart. Master lock could make unpickable locks if they wanted, but there a ton of extra cost. From refitting their manufacturing facilities to things you may not consider; like getting extra keys made. A high security lock won't be getting keys copied in one of those self-serve machines, and it requires locksmiths buy new equipment to copy those keys.
peterwn wrote:Of course Master could market a combo padlock similar to a S&G combo with a high security override cylinder but it would be so expensive no one would buy it.
And I think this is the real reason right here. Consumers don't want to pay $30-$200 for the extra security to lock up their swimming trunks at the local rec center. They want cheap $5 locks from Walmart. Master lock could make unpickable locks if they wanted, but there a ton of extra cost. From refitting their manufacturing facilities to things you may not consider; like getting extra keys made. A high security lock won't be getting keys copied in one of those self-serve machines, and it requires locksmiths buy new equipment to copy those keys.
Used to think there were a few unpickable locks. Many that were unpickable by me, but very few that were unpickable by anyone.
Time has gone by and there were a number of "unpickable, never will be picked" locks. Now can't think of a single one that has not been picked. No matter how expensive the lock, someone will figure out a way to pick it. Maybe the Mersey safe lock.
So I'd have to respectfully have to disagree that Master Lock, or any company for that matter, could make an unpickable lock. It may stand for a while, but not indefinitely.
Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
Time has gone by and there were a number of "unpickable, never will be picked" locks. Now can't think of a single one that has not been picked.
Well there's that one lock that was around a while back that the key was a chain, but even if you could still get one of those they're about the most impractical things ever to be called a lock. Likely it'll remain unpicked because there are so few of them since the company went out of business and the people who have them probably won't want to risk breaking them. Not so much because it's impossible, just they're all in the hands of collectors now.
Why doesn't manufacturers implement this "feature"? Is it because it weakens the key for daily use? Or we would just figure it out and make picks shafts even thinner?
