Common Room Keying

[apts4rent]

I'm getting ready to rekey one of my apartment complexes. We currently have it configured so that all apartment keys open special rooms like the laundry and exercise room as well as the garages. There's also a master that opens everything.

The locksmith I'm working with insists I implement key fobs instead of using keys for these rooms. He claims they're far more secure but I don't see the value. What do you guys think?

[Safecrackin Sammy]

When you maison key or "stack" a common area door lock to operate on all change keys you have to add master wafers in each chamber to accommodate all of the key cuts involved.

Theoretically yes, this will allow a larger number of keys to operate the lock at random. If your common area doors are exterior, and your key way is common, an unauthorized users key may operate the lock.

[stratmando]

My opinion, I would have a Key that would open Laundry. Exercise, and Garage area. Rooms to have their own. And a Master for Owner/Manager. Master could handle the 3 areas as well, but feel not worth the time, Money, and reduced security? MO. Curious of other opinions

[GWiens2001]

Agree with both of the replies. Either a separate key for the laundry and other areas that everyone uses or a key fob (which is simply another key, but electronic). Best solution IMHO is to use a separate key. Key fob is something that can easily be damaged when they accidentally wash their keys with their laundry or the battery can die.

Gordon

[apts4rent]

Does having maison keying make the apartment locks less secure (in practical terms). It would seem that master and maison keying both constrain the number of combinations available to use for the apartments.

[Squelchtone]

Does having maison keying make the apartment locks less secure (in practical terms). It would seem that master and maison keying both constrain the number of combinations available to use for the apartments.

That depends on what brand lock and how many pins in the cylinder. If youre talking 5 or 6 pin Schlage they have 9 different pin heights, if youre talking Kwikset 5 or 6 pin they have 6 different pin heights. Then there is Arrow and Sargent which all have their own specifications.

I wouldnt master key a Kwikset system but have seen it done. if you have 4 apartments then sure, but if you have 24 apartments then you run risk of keys from one apartment possibly opening anothet apartment if the key is jiggled just right and the lock is worn out enough to allow for some extra up and down movement while the key is inserted.

you could get a Digital schlage lock and give tenants the keypad code. they come with a key as well which you could pin to your landlord master key.

tell us more about your lock brand and number of units.

Squelchtone

[apts4rent]

There are 21 unique locks. Then there are the three common areas which everyone should have access to and we want a master to open all of it.

I really want a key system resistant to bump keys. To my horror, these have become a problem on some of my properties. The locksmith I use wants me to use Corbin Pyramid which seems overkill so I'm considering the Corbin Conventional w/ Bump Resistance.

This is a bit of a tangent but I ordered a bump key and tried it on my own home and am horrified how easily I was able to "break into my house" with it...

[billdeserthills]

I'm getting ready to rekey one of my apartment complexes. We currently have it configured so that all apartment keys open special rooms like the laundry and exercise room as well as the garages. There's also a master that opens everything.

The locksmith I'm working with insists I implement key fobs instead of using keys for these rooms. He claims they're far more secure but I don't see the value. What do you guys think?

It kinda sounds to me like your locksmith is trying to get as much $$ as he can out of you. Why not get a second quote from his competitor?

[Raymond]

I agree with several other commenters. Your locksmith is trying to raise the security very very high on the common doors compared to the actual apartments. This will be quite expensive to make the change and issue restricted keys. So what happens as soon as one of the common keys or key fob disappears? Pay another rekey charge and replace X number of keys? The best solution will still be a combination lock, such as a Trilogy, with which the combo can be changed on a timely schedule or at the first sign of a lost combo. Residents will be much happier with a combo than having to worry about another key. I would still like to know what keyway is currently in use.

[apts4rent]

I looked up the Trilogy locks and I love them! Those will work for what I need.

We currently have BEST interchangeable cores on all doors using BEST keys. I know they're an unrestricted keyway I believe it's type A.

[stratmando]

Why do you want to change from a system that appears to be a good system, is cost of Rekeying the factor? Is so, someone here could probably steer you in the right direction. If starting from scratch. I had a thought last night. Use front 2 pins(or 2 positions of your choice, one being front), and springs for the common areas. The Room keys would all have those 2 cuts, plus their unique 3(if 5 pin lock). Put spools in the 2 pin common locks. The common will have 3 useless cuts, as there are no pins and springs. Just a thought when about half asleep?
Or could use something like this with a strike, https://www.qualifiedhardware.com/brand ... FBEALw_wcB

Many Mechanical and Push Button locks with easily changed code.

Good Luck

[Squelchtone]

Why do you want to change from a system that appears to be a good system, is cost of Rekeying the factor? Is so, someone here could probably steer you in the right direction. If starting from scratch. I had a thought last night. Use front 2 pins(or 2 positions of your choice, one being front), and springs for the common areas. The Room keys would all have those 2 cuts, plus their unique 3(if 5 pin lock). Put spools in the 2 pin common locks. The common will have 3 useless cuts, as there are no pins and springs. Just a thought when about half asleep?
Or could use something like this with a strike, https://www.qualifiedhardware.com/brand ... FBEALw_wcB

Many Mechanical and Push Button locks with easily changed code.

Good Luck

good advice stratmando, here is a page with some good ideas for making BEST ever better with spool pins and steel pins:

http://www.atlanticlock.com/index.php?m ... Path=15_16

[jeffmoss26]

I would strongly advise against maison keying any form of IC.

[cledry]

Just a quick point. A Kwikset master key system can be much larger than a Schlage system despite the Kwikset having a lesser number of depths. We only master key Kwikset locks for the local housing authority and the system is huge! Couldn't get anywhere near the number of changes with a Schlage.

The disadvantage of a combination lock is that to maintain security you need to change the combination each time a tenant leaves and you do not know if a tenant is sharing the code. A fob can be eliminated from the system on an individual basis in an instant. We are currently bidding on converting an apartment complex from maison keying which caused headaches and a lawsuit to fobs with electric strikes. It is a big job involving 92 doors, it will be 92 completely new doors and frames, new electric strikes, new Adams Rite hardware, new prox readers, networking, gateways, wiring and loads of fobs. Fobs offer an audit trail as well.

I am not privy to the lawsuit involved, but I imagine it must be serious to invest this much.

The locksmith in my opinion is offering the best solution in these litigious times.

[peterwn]

Just a quick point. A Kwikset master key system can be much larger than a Schlage system despite the Kwikset having a lesser number of depths. We only master key Kwikset locks for the local housing authority and the system is huge! Couldn't get anywhere near the number of changes with a Schlage.

Why would this be? Presumablw with Kwikset all 7 depths can be used whereas with Schlage presumably adjacent depths are so small that only alternate depths can be used.
Seems that in general only 5 depths can be used for masterkeying in a normal 10 depth cylinder, hence some manufacturers seem to have moved to 6 depth cylinders where all 6 depths can be used for masterkeying thus increasing the potential system size.