If lock difficult to open with key, will picking it be hard?

[Squelchtone]

May be a dumb question, but if a lock is difficult to open with a key i.e. it binds and you have to jiggle it to open, will it be tougher to pick?

[globallockytoo]

not necessarily.
Your key is probably cut wrong. If you have to jiggle it to get it to work, it is likely cut too deep or the spacing is off.
Take your key to a locksmith, tell them your story and have them cut a new key using a piece of paper under the key in the machine (not the blank), That will raise the height of the cuts enough to get a key that works correctly

[stratmando]

I would think key may not be cut deep enough?, and the pressure is the bottom?/keypin? being squeezed between the key edge and sheer line, if cut too deep. Their would be slack between sheer and key edge, and top pin would give resistance only from the spring, looking for answer myself, then their would be a deep impression mark?
If so, fine filing or sanding could correct.
Curious of other thoughts on this

[Squelchtone]

is anyone reading the entire question? He's not troubleshooting a broken lock or a badly cut key...

the answer is no / maybe / it depends.

first, a couple questions...

is the key easy to insert into the lock? once the key is jiggled and the plug starts to turn does the plug turn easily or is the plug difficult to turn? I ask because the answer would tell us if there is something wrong with the key, with the pins, with the plug, or with the tailpiece or cam.

All a key does is lifts key pins to a certain height in order to push driver pins out of the plug so that the plug is free to turn. A key does this all at once, while a pick or rake does it 1 2 3 4 or 5 pins at once depending on the pick used.

If a key has to be jiggled in order to set the pins in the lock to the shearline, then that might mean the key is indeed miscut or too worn to properly lift the pins to shearline. If miscut, it maybe overlifting a key pin out of the plug, which would block the plug from turning just a a driver pin inside the plug would. In this situation, a pick would not have any problem as how far it lifts a pin changes depending on the person holding the pick and lifting the pins. The lock may open just fine in this situation, unless the issue is something with the plug being dirty or some sort of pressure on the tail piece or cam.

is this theoretical or do you have a lock that is hard to open unless you jiggle the key in order to make the pins form a shearline?

Squelchtone

[jdudzy]

is anyone reading the entire question? He's not troubleshooting a broken lock or a badly cut key...

the answer is no / maybe / it depends.

first, a couple questions...

is the key easy to insert into the lock? once the key is jiggled and the plug starts to turn does the plug turn easily or is the plug difficult to turn? I ask because the answer would tell us if there is something wrong with the key, with the pins, with the plug, or with the tailpiece or cam.

All a key does is lifts key pins to a certain height in order to push driver pins out of the plug so that the plug is free to turn. A key does this all at once, while a pick or rake does it 1 2 3 4 or 5 pins at once depending on the pick used.

If a key has to be jiggled in order to set the pins in the lock to the shearline, then that might mean the key is indeed miscut or too worn to properly lift the pins to shearline. If miscut, it maybe overlifting a key pin out of the plug, which would block the plug from turning just a a driver pin inside the plug would. In this situation, a pick would not have any problem as how far it lifts a pin changes depending on the person holding the pick and lifting the pins. The lock may open just fine in this situation, unless the issue is something with the plug being dirty or some sort of pressure on the tail piece or cam.

is this theoretical or do you have a lock that is hard to open unless you jiggle the key in order to make the pins form a shearline?

Squelchtone

Yeah sorry I should have been more clear. It was a key that came with the lock. I found an old disc lock in my basement and it is giving me trouble. I know disc locks can be sometimes hard to open themselves and can catch a little. The key does go in fairly smooth but I have to pull it out and put it back in and jiggle it a bunch to get it to turn.

Now that I’m typing this out I’m just thinking it’s a cheap disc lock and probably something is worn down. When I jiggle the key it’s setting the last pin and allowing it to turn. (And that I just suck trying to pick this thing open)

[demux]

I found an old disc lock in my basement and it is giving me trouble. I know disc locks can be sometimes hard to open themselves and can catch a little.

Hang on there, when you say disc lock are you talking about something like this? If so, that kind of negates what you were saying before about keys lifting pins (not to mention would restrict discussion of picking said lock to the advanced forum). Or perhaps a puck lock like this?

This may be a situation where it might be helpful if you posted a couple of high quality pics of the lock, and (if not in current or planned future use) the key that goes along with it. Seeing these pics, we could perhaps diagnose any obvious wear or other issues that might be affecting the operation, and could probably give better advice overall on how to proceed...

[demux]

Take your key to a locksmith, tell them your story and have them cut a new key using a piece of paper under the key in the machine (not the blank)

Or, better yet, originate a new key by code.

[globallockytoo]

I would think key may not be cut deep enough?, and the pressure is the bottom?/keypin? being squeezed between the key edge and sheer line, if cut too deep. Their would be slack between sheer and key edge, and top pin would give resistance only from the spring, looking for answer myself, then their would be a deep impression mark?
If so, fine filing or sanding could correct.
Curious of other thoughts on this

If it were cut to shallow, it wouldnt turn at all. Or, if it it did turn, it would be really hard to turn with the pins binding on the inside of the cylinder body

[RedE]

So after you jiggle the key around and it turns fine without binding thereafter, then you should have no problems picking it open. This of course would mean that the key is likely hanging up due to being poorly cut, as others have already mentioned.

Concerning the comments on keys being too shallow... In my experience when this happens, the key binds throughout the whole motion of the turn in addition to the initial turning point. And as you said Stratmando, yes they also can leave impression marks this case, sometimes even bulging part of the keyblade in the extreme instances.

[jdudzy]

So after you jiggle the key around and it turns fine without binding thereafter, then you should have no problems picking it open. This of course would mean that the key is likely hanging up due to being poorly cut, as others have already mentioned.

Concerning the comments on keys being too shallow... In my experience when this happens, the key binds throughout the whole motion of the turn in addition to the initial turning point. And as you said Stratmando, yes they also can leave impression marks this case, sometimes even bulging part of the keyblade in the extreme instances.

I’m wondering if it’s jusy a cheap lock. It’s a lock I picked up from Uhaul.
Here is a link to the pictures, hope it works! Thanks for the responses.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s48cpg2e6i8q ... 5ceca?dl=0

[stratmando]

Went to Uhaul to rent a truck, while doing the paperwork, I mentioned I was a Locksmith, he asked if I could pick "High Security" locks? I said what do you have, he opened a brand new one, opened in about a minute. May not have used a tension tool, as I rotate shackle by hand, then only a pick is needed. You could wrap a pice of tape around shackle to make tensioning easier. That IS a pin tumbler lock

[stratmando]

It just now came to me, some call those locks "Discus), we were thinking "Disc Detainer", I was anyway.

[GWiens2001]

And I was thinking disc tumbler.

Never tried tensioning one of those using the shackle.

Gordon

[stratmando]

Yeah, by using the shackle, nothing is in the way of a pick, a piece of tape wrapped around, even a 1/2" of tape wrapped around shackle provides good tension. After he gets that he needs to do with tension wrench as room for tape may not allow.

[GWiens2001]

Yeah, by using the shackle, nothing is in the way of a pick, a piece of tape wrapped around, even a 1/2" of tape wrapped around shackle provides good tension. After he gets that he needs to do with tension wrench as room for tape may not allow.

Thanks, Stratmando. Learn something new every day.

Gordon