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Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Thinking of upgrading your door security? Getting a better deadbolt or padlock? Getting a new frame or better hinges? Not sure what brand or model to go with for your particular application? Need a recommendation? Feel free to ask for advice here!

Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby gsanderson » 15 Feb 2019 20:21

Greetings. I'm considering replacing my sliding glass door and all of my windows with PGT impact glass (located in Florida). I plan on converting the slider to a set of French doors. PGT offers a model called the FD750 that comes with a multipoint lock and euro style hardware. As far as I can tell from the pictures and the Miami Dade Notice of Acceptance for this model, it comes with Ashland brand trim hardware. Since the entire house will soon have laminated impact resistant windows, I'd like to upgrade all of the locks in the house to have high overall security. My plan is to replace the deadbolts on two outswing doors (both are single doors) with the Medeco Maxum residential deadbolt. For the PGT French doors, I'd like to replace the cylinder with a Medeco KiK replacement cylinder and key it alike with the two other deadbolts.

My questions are, are there any major obstacles with replacing the lock cylinder in these types of multipoint lock trim sets? I don't have any special locksmith training, but I think I'm fairly handy overall. Also, will just replacing the lock cylinder with the Medeco be enough to provide a high level of security? Or is there something inherently vulnerable about these euro style hardware sets? I've listed links below to the relevant equipment.

PGT FD750 French doors with laminated impact glass and hidden hinges
https://www.pgtwindows.com/products/fd750/

"Medeco Replacement Cylinder for your Knob or Lever" w/key control and drill resistance
https://mylockstore.com/products/medecokik-kil-cylinder

Ashland "True Elegance" multipoint lock trim (what comes on the PGT FD750)
Schlage C-keyway cylinder
https://www.ashlandhardware.com/product ... /prodid/54

"Medeco 11TR Maxum Residential Deadbolt High Security Restricted M3 5 pin Keyway" (for two other single outswing doors)
https://mylockstore.com/products/medeco ... l-deadbolt

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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby billdeserthills » 16 Feb 2019 0:10

The only problem I foresee is getting a Medeco cylinder to fit inside the multipoint handle, other than that you should be good to go. I have noticed on many of my multi point hardware replacement jobs a visit from the grandkids touches off the whole broken lock--

multipoint hardware can be very finicky, as well as easy to break. If it really is 'better security' my contention is that's mostly due to it's tendency to jam in place when forced--Just wait till you see the replacement cost!! The dumbest thing of all is many times it can take weeks or even months to get the replacement multi point hardware from the manufacturer--I guess your just supposed to slide a chair up against the door until then--Absolutely ridiculous
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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby gsanderson » 16 Feb 2019 7:46

billdeserthills wrote:The only problem I foresee is getting a Medeco cylinder to fit inside the multipoint handle, other than that you should be good to go. I have noticed on many of my multi point hardware replacement jobs a visit from the grandkids touches off the whole broken lock--

Hello. Could you possibly expand a bit on this? It isn't an easy swap? I'm open to other high security brands if they will fit better.


billdeserthills wrote:multipoint hardware can be very finicky, as well as easy to break. If it really is 'better security' my contention is that's mostly due to it's tendency to jam in place when forced--Just wait till you see the replacement cost!! The dumbest thing of all is many times it can take weeks or even months to get the replacement multi point hardware from the manufacturer--I guess your just supposed to slide a chair up against the door until then--Absolutely ridiculous

Long-term reliability of the multipoint hardware is definitely a concern of mine. Having a unit freeze in its locked position sounds like a nightmare.
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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby Squelchtone » 16 Feb 2019 10:32

Before you click Buy Now on that Medeco site, make sure to send them photos of the cylinder you pull out of your new hardware. They will need to match up the length and tail piece (Schlage, Arrow, Sargent, Kwikset, something propriatary, etc)

Medeco makes retrofit cylinders and tailpieces for most of the major manufacturers.

Have a good day,
Squelchtone
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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby atlas » 8 Sep 2020 8:24

Hi,
We have those exact same PGT doors, except 15 years old, and I was curious if you would mind following up with what you found out about the locks since I am looking at doing the same thing with the old locks. The doors/windows are great, and have been through a number of hurricanes here in Florida (like OP) and even a > 1000 pound balcony that was being replaced smashing into the glass below and literally bouncing off without even a scratch.

Thank you for the time!
Chris

P.s. As an alternative, I was even considering putting a single deadbolt at the bottom (or top) of the PGT doors (they are in the back and we never enter through them, so they could be locked with no possibility of them being picked, although I'm not sure if that is practical.
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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby Raymond » 8 Sep 2020 15:55

Warning Atlas: Many multi-point doors have a rod running up through the door. Please don't drill through the rods when installing a deadbolt. I have seen this attempted before the locksmith could be stopped. The auxiliary deadbolt could be mounted closer toward the middle of the door at the top or bottom but that would be inconvenient.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby atlas » 8 Sep 2020 16:25

Thanks for the warning. I was aware of it, but appreciate the thoughtfulness of the warning.

Perhaps a pin into the door would be an alternate solution.
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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby atlas » 17 Oct 2020 18:14

Hi,
Just to follow up, I am probably going to replace ours with the Medeco or Mul-T-Lock equivalent cylinder.

Looking at the keyway it looks like a Schlage C or E on our PGT FD750 doors from 2005. Ditto from the shape of the key. The actual cylinder part is about 1.25 inches long and about 1 inch if you exclude the threaded part at one end and the silver part at the other. (It starts at 1 inch, although the angle of the photo it doesn't look that way.) I am not sure which is a better choice the Medeco or Mul-T-Lock. A surface bolt and pin didn't make any sense even though the first person I called about 6 weeks ago suggested that since they didn't really seem interested in doing the cylinders.

As the original poster said, now that I've taken one apart to look at the inside, it seems pretty easy to change them out, the tricky part being to find the exact part needed to

I just wanted to give the information above in case anyone finds this and is searching for similar info. :-)

Thanks :-)


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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby cledry » 19 Oct 2020 22:21

You can use a Medeco cylinder, but make sure there is room behind the thread on cap. Some of these locks use a 5 pin cylinder. You will normally find a 6 pin Medeco cylinder although they will make a 5 pin. Why not go to a local locksmith and he can order the right stuff for you.
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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby atlas » 20 Oct 2020 5:10

cledry wrote:You can use a Medeco cylinder, but make sure there is room behind the thread on cap. Some of these locks use a 5 pin cylinder. You will normally find a 6 pin Medeco cylinder although they will make a 5 pin. Why not go to a local locksmith and he can order the right stuff for you.


Yeah, I am going to ask a different one that the first on I asked who didn't seem to care and just suggested using surface bolts.

Thanks.
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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby gsanderson » 5 Jan 2021 20:07

Hello all,

Apologies for not following up on this thread. I don't check this email very much. In addition to the reply from atlas, someone else also emailed me direct with questions. Here is my update in case it helps anyone in the future.

I ended up with a Medeco M3 KIK cylinder that I've had installed & working for about a year now. I had to have it custom ordered as a 5-pin due to space issues. cledry mentions this above, but it was the bible that would be too long due to that z-looking bracket in the last picture atlas posted. I wasn't willing to risk bending the bracket outward as I would have been screwed if it snapped.

Finding a Medeco locksmith that would work with me on a custom order was more difficult than I thought it would be. Most just wanted to sell me whatever they had in stock. I needed a KIK that was both 5-pin and in satin nickel, which meant custom ordering. I finally found a mobile locksmith in my area that has been in the business for 30 years that would work with me.

My locksmith ordered the custom KIK as well as two deadbolts all keyed the same. The custom order took about 6 weeks to arrive.

I did a self-install. My locksmith gave me a recycled tailpiece that he thought might work better than the one included with the Medeco KIK...and he was right. The tailpiece from the factory schlage KIK would not fit the Medeco. The tailpiece included with the Medeco could be made to work, but it would require grinding the height down a bit to fit in the gearbox slot. I've tried to show what I mean in the picture below.

In the email I received from the forum member, the person mentioned looking at Protec2 and MT5+ in addition to the M3. I looked at those as well, but opted for Medeco for a few reasons. Medeco offered sufficient security for my needs, they had the finish I wanted, and they seem to have a much larger amount of dealers I can work with if needed.

As a side note, I think these multipoint doors offer great protection from hurricanes. However, I have to wonder if they are easier to break into than a traditional door for someone that knows where attack. I think you could remove the handle (via the set pin) and drill out the top and bottom of the faceplate. The faceplate should fall off at that point where you could remove the KIK. Some ball bearings dropped in the faceplate screw holes might help, but I haven't tried this. The faceplate screws might be too long for this without cutting their height down a bit.

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Re: Cylinder Replacement in Euro style hardware

Postby atlas » 5 Jan 2021 20:21

Hi,
It is funny, I was just going to update too!

We did replace all 13 locks on the exterior PGT FD750 doors. I did find a locksmith who did would do it, and we ended up going with the Mul-T-Lock lock. I couldn't get the Medeco dealers to even call back. They missed out on 13 locks, plus the install.

I could've changed them myself, it wasn't difficult, it just would've taken me MUCH longer than it took him to do it for all the doors. He took a bit over an hour to do them all - me it would've taken all day no doubt because he trimmed the tail pieces. I did end up replacing one lock with the MT5+ hercular on the non-impact exterior metal door, but let him do the other 13 PGTs. If it had been just that one, that would've been different, but for $20 each, it was a great deal to save me hours of work.

Thanks again for everyone's help!
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