Masterlock no3

[ElijahT]

I’ve been learning to pick for the past few weeks and I have a set of practice locks that go from 2 pins to 5 pins and I’ve progressed through them rather well. However when I decided to tackle a loose masterlock I’ve run into a brick wall trying to get it open. It only has 4 pins which makes me more frustrated that I can’t get it. I tension the core, I feel for the binding pin it’s always #4, I click it into place. Next pin to bind is always #3, click that into place. #2 and #1 pins stay springy and number 3 and 4 seem to be in place. So my question is: what should I be feeling for that I might be doing wrong? (Bitting is high cut, high cut, low cut, medium cut, from pin 4 to 1)

[pemlock]

Very hard to know without actually feeling the lock (despite a good description), but if I would hazard a guess: Perhaps you over-set a pin? It's easily done (and something I still struggle with). Try to be extra careful not to push the pins too hard, the actual set might be hard to feel in "crunchy" locks with sloppy tolerances.

[billdeserthills]

I’ve been learning to pick for the past few weeks and I have a set of practice locks that go from 2 pins to 5 pins and I’ve progressed through them rather well. However when I decided to tackle a loose masterlock I’ve run into a brick wall trying to get it open. It only has 4 pins which makes me more frustrated that I can’t get it. I tension the core, I feel for the binding pin it’s always #4, I click it into place. Next pin to bind is always #3, click that into place. #2 and #1 pins stay springy and number 3 and 4 seem to be in place. So my question is: what should I be feeling for that I might be doing wrong? (Bitting is high cut, high cut, low cut, medium cut, from pin 4 to 1)

It's easier to pick most padlocks if you compress the shackle while picking, unfortunately it isn't always very easy to squeeze the shackle while controlling a tension wrench & picking, unless you have a vise handy or have 3 hands

[high_order1]

Well

You sound like you have a good handle on what's going on as far as how to correctly use a set of picks, and the correct way to defeat that particular type of lock.

Some times, those things can just be a pain. With two left springy, it sounds like you either overpicked, or you actually have the wrong order. Imprecise machining to keep costs low could have introduced a defect in one of the pins, or a pin stack, hanging a pin up. Maybe even a teeny piece of crud.

When I get where you are, I leave it alone, or pick something else I know I've mastered, just to make sure my hands haven't gotten out of calibration (I pick a lot of stuff when I have down time and am watching a youtube, or a movie or something).

Then, I go back, and use a lot lighter touch on the tension wrench, and single pin pick it.

Failing that, I scrub rake with a bogota profile pick.

Failing that, I shoot the lock full of carb cleaner, then a puff of graphite (I never ever use liquid or paste type lubes in most locks). Then blast it with some canned air, and use something to jiggle the heck out of the lock core.

That's been the right answer on every lock I felt I should be able to open. (Some times, I've had to clean out locks I couldn't, lots of shavings build up when I'm getting frustrated / not paying attention).

Whatever you do, don't give up on it, though

[CaptHook]

Well

You sound like you have a good handle on what's going on as far as how to correctly use a set of picks, and the correct way to defeat that particular type of lock.

Some times, those things can just be a pain. With two left springy, it sounds like you either overpicked, or you actually have the wrong order. Imprecise machining to keep costs low could have introduced a defect in one of the pins, or a pin stack, hanging a pin up. Maybe even a teeny piece of crud.

When I get where you are, I leave it alone, or pick something else I know I've mastered, just to make sure my hands haven't gotten out of calibration (I pick a lot of stuff when I have down time and am watching a youtube, or a movie or something).

Then, I go back, and use a lot lighter touch on the tension wrench, and single pin pick it.

Failing that, I scrub rake with a bogota profile pick.

Failing that, I shoot the lock full of carb cleaner, then a puff of graphite (I never ever use liquid or paste type lubes in most locks). Then blast it with some canned air, and use something to jiggle the heck out of the lock core.

That's been the right answer on every lock I felt I should be able to open. (Some times, I've had to clean out locks I couldn't, lots of shavings build up when I'm getting frustrated / not paying attention).

Whatever you do, don't give up on it, though

Here are some tips....

You dont scrub rake with a bogata, its a rocker.

If you use a cleaner like car and choke spray, or brake cleaner, you need to follow up with a shot of triflow, houdini, etc.

Dont use powdered graphite in a lock. Ever.

If you are getting "shavings" inside the lock, you are not picking, you are damaging.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you are mass posting the board with not so great advice. Im not sure why.

[high_order1]

Here are some tips....

You dont scrub rake with a bogata, its a rocker.

If you use a cleaner like car and choke spray, or brake cleaner, you need to follow up with a shot of triflow, houdini, etc.

Dont use powdered graphite in a lock. Ever.

If you are getting "shavings" inside the lock, you are not picking, you are damaging.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you are mass posting the board with not so great advice. Im not sure why.

Don't worry about being blunt LOL

Never thought about using a bogota as a rocker. That's not what's taught in certain industry schools, I'll try it out here in a minute on some SFIC cores I have right here. Thanks!

I use graphite on a weekly basis in commercial and industrial environments, because I have industry certifications that tell me that's what to use. For instance, this took about 4 seconds in the public to find:

https://bblsa.co.za/product/yale-graphite-powder-ydy21402-1/

Always use the correct product to fix a lock that is jamming/sticky. It is common to resort to using vegetable oil, sewing machine oil, WD40 or similar products, but these provide an ideal attractant for dust particles and dirt which results in a build-up. Instead always use Graphite powder which is greaseless.

I don't know what Houdini is. Triflow sits, and the teflon drops out of solution. Sometimes, I have found it to be sticky. Maybe I've gotten a couple of bad bottles, though.

I agree that shavings / powder indicate damage. Hence my qualifier, 'when I'm not paying attention.'

I accept that my advice is only 'not so great'. That's still the low end of great, and gives me room for improvement.

You are the second person to accuse me of 'mass posting'. Wasn't my intent, I had some time to devote, thought I'd try to add value to the conversations and stir some new interest in what appears to be mostly old posts. Clearly this is not appreciated, so I'll respond to what I got overnight and be on my way.

[CaptHook]

Don't worry about being blunt LOL

Never thought about using a bogota as a rocker. That's not what's taught in certain industry schools, I'll try it out here in a minute on some SFIC cores I have right here. Thanks!

I use graphite on a weekly basis in commercial and industrial environments, because I have industry certifications that tell me that's what to use. For instance, this took about 4 seconds in the public to find:

https://bblsa.co.za/product/yale-graphite-powder-ydy21402-1/

Always use the correct product to fix a lock that is jamming/sticky. It is common to resort to using vegetable oil, sewing machine oil, WD40 or similar products, but these provide an ideal attractant for dust particles and dirt which results in a build-up. Instead always use Graphite powder which is greaseless.

I don't know what Houdini is. Triflow sits, and the teflon drops out of solution. Sometimes, I have found it to be sticky. Maybe I've gotten a couple of bad bottles, though.

I agree that shavings / powder indicate damage. Hence my qualifier, 'when I'm not paying attention.'

I accept that my advice is only 'not so great'. That's still the low end of great, and gives me room for improvement.

You are the second person to accuse me of 'mass posting'. Wasn't my intent, I had some time to devote, thought I'd try to add value to the conversations and stir some new interest in what appears to be mostly old posts. Clearly this is not appreciated, so I'll respond to what I got overnight and be on my way.

Industry schools huh? Foley Belsaw or some other mail order certification company I take it? You dont know what Houdini is, and industry certifications tell you to use graphite? LOL

You really dont have a clue about what you dont know.

If I had to guess, you are trying to get your post count up to get into the advanced topics.

And no, your advice sucks. That was my attempt at being polite.

So long, goodbye, farewell.

[high_order1]

Sorry, lots of tabs open tonight. Just noticed this.

Industry schools huh? Foley Belsaw or some other mail order certification company I take it?

Federal government, Assa Abloy (which rolled up Medeco and Arrow), Allegion, Avigilon, Honeywell / Fire-Lite and a few others. I will say I've read the Foley binder with the advanced section after reading a review on this very forum. It wasn't the worst thing I've ever read on the subject.

You dont know what Houdini is, and industry certifications tell you to use graphite? LOL

(shrugs) You saw it right on the Yale website. Guess I need me some Houdini with the way you keep tossing it around like a talisman, though, thanks again for the tip.

You really dont have a clue about what you dont know.

That's mostly true. I do know I get paid for what I do know, though. And, sometimes I get paid very well for things I make educated guesses on.

If I had to guess, you are trying to get your post count up to get into the advanced topics.

I've been here almost ten years, why would I start now? I was just trying to participate in a positive manner.

And no, your advice sucks. That was my attempt at being polite.

People pay me for my advice. Also:
9. Flaming other posters is not (sic)in permitted

So long, goodbye, farewell.

thanks

[Squelchtone]

Easy fellas, we're all here for the same goal, to discuss our passion for locks, picking, collecting, maintaining, locksmithing, safe cracking, tool making, etc. And it is a passion, and sometimes people get passionate about their beliefs, and sometimes we stand on hills defending those beliefs, so I totally get where both of you are coming from.

Let cooler heads prevail, and remember, thou shalt not argue about politics, religion, or personal preferences of lock lubricants. It's easy to yell back and fourth "you're wrong", "no, you're wrong" but that doesn't get us anywhere. and remember debate 101: attack the idea, not the person.

Everyone has their favorite way to lube a lock, One guy likes his graphite, one guy likes his Houdini, and I like my MilCom Locksaver spray, there's plenty of lube for everyone's needs

back into your respective corners please, come back to fight round 2 another day.

Squelchtone