Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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Greetings: I recently picked up a large Mosler safe that I am trying to make operational. When I purchased the safe (Craigslist) the doors were unlocked, and the seller stated the lock worked, but he had not used the combination in while. The safe seems a good deal regardless, so I bought it.
I was able to lock the door, with the door open, but cannot for the life of me get the combo to unlock. I currently have three safes, so I don't think its me. I've tried about a hundred times. I took the lock apart tonight, and it looks like several I have seen online (Lagard or S&G?). When I was photographing the lock, a piece of a pin fell out. No idea where that came from, but it is definitely broken. I have read on this forums about the issues with dried grease; plenty of that here.
Can I just purchase a new lock and install? What make/brand/model do I need? With the broken pin, unsure of proper combination (although I learned how to figure it out from this site tonight), If a new lock is reasonable (for very good + quality), I think that would be my best option.
Where is the spline key, spindle, and cam? that little metal piece is an alignment boss that broke off the case.. no big loss. and not going to affect the function of the locks dialing or ability retract bolt.
Here's what that metal pin looks like normally:
That's a quality lock, it would be a shame to change it to something else.
Did you also remove the dial? Because I don't see the drive cam.
The cover has to marks with the distance of the gate width. These are there to check if and how the combination is off. You can assemble the lock, dial in the combination and remove the cover. Then the gates should be at this marked location. If not you have to either change the numbers you dial in or the coding of the wheels.
squeltone and Martin; thank you for your help. If I can get this lock to work, I'd be very happy to. When I get home tonight, I will try to find the combination as I have learned here. I do not think it is the combination that I was given.
The grease in the mechanism is very dry, and actually sticky. Looks like some type of white lithium based grease? There is a little play where the spindle goes through the door. What chemical would you recommend to clean the lock with? What type of grease to lube with?
Here are more photographs. Thanks again for help. I'd like to get this old girl in the house and in use soon.
The wheels are mesh change, i.e. they are made from two parts, which can be separated and again put together to set the combination. One part is the outer dark plastic ring and the other is the inner disc. On the inner disc is a mark. When assembled it points to the number of the combination on the outer ring. The actual combination can be slightly of, e.g. because of the position of the dial ring. That is why there are the marks on the lock cover. The wheel you can see is the wheel for the third number. The mark should be within one or two numbers on the third number you got from the seller.
When you assemble your dial spindle there are four possible positions and only one is correct. When your dial is at 0 the opening of the drive cam (your last photo) should be nearest to the nose of the lever. When you unlock your lock (you don't need to mount the cover) it should stop around 90 when turning right. (I can't give you exact numbers now, but if you are 25 or 50 numbers of, you will notice it.)
For starts I would just wipe it clean. The choice of grease is a religious one and perhaps you don't need one.
When you have the dial mounted dial the combination with cover, remove it and have a look. That will tell you if some thing is slightly wrong or completely off.
Squelchtone, it is more clever to search a youtube video than to write a bible.
EFR, use grease in very small doses. Locks are more often overgreased than undergreased. I have seen dials filled with grease because the spindle was bent. If you have the urge to use a lot, then something needs to be fixed.
Squelchtone and Martin thank you very much. That video was VERY helpful, that lock looks very much like mine (mine has a roll pin for the gate). I will try this tonight.
Martin: You mentioned something about the two lines on the cover. I found them. What are they for? One digit on the combo as given to me was 84. The wheel that I can see was pointing toward 85.
The gentleman in the video said no lube on wheels. Got it. What about on the spindle or actual locking piece? The locking piece is dragging now, my guess is dried grease, but I can't see any there.
The lines are there to check the combination. The lock will open only when all gates of the wheels are positioned there. Put the cover on, dial the three numbers, remove the cover and have a look where the gates are located. Are all three gates between these two marks? Are all gates a bit left or right? Are two correct and is one far off?
Normally two locations in locks can profit from some lube. First is some thin lube at the tube where the wheels sit on and the second is grease on the guide of the locking bolt. My guess is, that it is good as it is and you do not have to do there anything. The lock is not that old and the plastic wheels might indeed not need any lube at all. I am not familiar with this type of dial and spindle. Modern setups do not need any grease, older installations need a bit grease where the dial touches the dial ring around the centre opening. When you turn the dial left and right without moving a wheel (perhaps without the cover) the dial should turn very freely. Wheels should provide some resistance. That gives some feedback and makes it IMHO easier to operate the lock. There are one or more bronze rings behind the last wheel. These are there to provide some tensions on the wheel pack to prevent a to free rotation. All lube won't reduce this intentional friction. You see these rings in the video around 5:10.
Squelchtone and Martin thank you. Under your tutelage, I pulled the lock apart tonight and ascertained the combination. The numbers were 1, 4, and 1 digit off what was provided to me. Obviously the numbers were close, but would not work for me.
I took apart the entire lock work, cleaned it, and set a new combination. I took the back of the door off and attempted to clean as much of the old grease from the lock work as possible (there was a lot, and it was very sticky). I lightly lubricated friction points and joints and it is much improved. I put the lock back together and it works!
At first, the lock was opening about 50% of the time for me. I was dialing the proper numbers in the proper sequence, and as I worked the lock multiple times, I found two points that enhanced operation; first, I went very slow before and after 0 on the last turn. I think the spring for the hook may be a little weak. Second, If I went 'strong' or slightly past my first number, that also seemed to increase the chance the lock opening.
I've opened it about 15 times now, without shutting the door. For obvious reasons, I"ll probably try it a 100 more times before I shut the door and try it.
Great, Eric! I had in bed another idea what you might want to check: Is the dial ring thoroughly fixed to the door? Shifting of that ring is also a common reason for problems.
The hand change locks rarely are spot on between the number on each wheel and the number dialed due to misalignment between the dial and the lock. Best thing to do on a normal combination change is write down the customer perceived combination in use, then the number on each wheel as the lock is disassembled. Note each wheel number and you come up with a "correction " factor to match a new combination on the dial. Sounds like you are already heading that way. The key thing is to refine your combination until the lock is opening consistently on a set of numbers. There should be some slop of 1/4 to 1/2 number high and low of your target number so that the lock is balanced.
You can de-grease the lock with any de-greaser as long as its either safe around plastic, or you keep it off the plastic parts of the wheels.
For lube I use Sil-Glyde BK4 disc brake lube you can get at the auto store. Its cheap and close to the what is used in some new locks. Plus you can use it on your next brake job. The only parts in the lock that get lubed are the wheel post. Use a little as possible. And a little on the brass lock bolt. A dab on the dial ring bearing is ok too.
Your lock is a right hand so it has gravity working with the fence and once cleaned and set, should be good to go.
