Need help identifying Yale combination lock

[Tomlinson523]

I have an old safe from the Sable safe co. Type S made in Detroit and Cleveland equipped with a Yale combination lock. I have attempted to find the contact points and number of tumblers but I am new to manipulation and can’t find any information on Sable safes. Any help on here would be appreciated! https://imgur.com/gallery/hRf8tye

[Tomlinson523]

https://imgur.com/gallery/PVTcxZm

[MartinHewitt]

Does the dial lock up if you turn the handle?

[Tomlinson523]

The dial spins freely, when I turn the handle the dial will still spin but with resistance and the dial seems loose and wobbly to me. I can hear two tumblers pick up but never a third or fourth, possibly something is broke inside?

[MartinHewitt]

My guess is, that it is a Herring-Hall-Marvin safe with a Yale HE lock. The handle pushes the bolt work to the side. The bolt work has a slide where the fence sits on. So moving the bolt work to the side pushes the fence into the lock. If it can get into the lock, because the combination is wrong, then the bolt work can't move fully. The lock should have three wheels, but I know this lock only from books. If you turn the handle you should be able to feel contact points if it is the HE. I can't give you manipulation advice in this forum due to forum rules.

[Tomlinson523]

That would make sense why the dial moves so much when I try to turn the handle. It seems the dial has more than normal wobble I’d say close to an 1/8 of an inch of play when pulling on the dial up and down. Could be normal for this style yale lock? I have no clue but no other safe dial I have used has that much play. I’ll continue to try and find a third wheel and contact points, thanks for your help this far.

[Raymond]

I have a safe that looks very similar. Mine has the Yale OB lock. It has two active wheels and an active drive wheel. (three total) It's drop point and contacts are between 0 and 10. If you put handle pressure it actually binds the lever and nothing can be felt. The lever is gravity powered. The heavy end blocks the bolt bar. When the correct combo is dialed, gravity pulls the heavy end of the lever down. The short, light end then moves up into the gate of a wheel. Some of the oldest, original locks like this would open if the safe is turned up side down. The lever would swing completely out of the way of the bolt bar, but the newer ones blocked that movement.

Try to dial it open just using numbers ending in 5 or 0. You might get lucky.

[Squelchtone]

I have a safe that looks very similar. Mine has the Yale OB lock. It has two active wheels and an active drive wheel. (three total) It's drop point and contacts are between 0 and 10. If you put handle pressure it actually binds the lever and nothing can be felt. The lever is gravity powered. The heavy end blocks the bolt bar. When the correct combo is dialed, gravity pulls the heavy end of the lever down. The short, light end then moves up into the gate of a wheel. Some of the oldest, original locks like this would open if the safe is turned up side down. The lever would swing completely out of the way of the bolt bar, but the newer ones blocked that movement.

Try to dial it open just using numbers ending in 5 or 0. You might get lucky.

a couple photos to help show what Raymond described:

the lock as you would see it if the safe door was transparent:



the lock mechanism interacting with the bolt work as seen from the inside of the safe, the combination wheels and cover have been removed from the round opening where they normally sit. The drive wheel is visible with the lever resting inside it's gate.



This is a wheel pack *similiar* in design to what would be in your safe lock body. The wheels are on a post which is attached to the cover plate.


If I have made any errors in descriptions, please let me know so I can fix them.
Squelchtone

[Raymond]

I'm glad you had the photos. I didn't want to tear down my old antique. As it is, I goofed when talking about the wheels. There are three combo wheels and one driver. The standard 4L-3R-2L-1R. It clunks solidly at the opening.