Help picking Yale LFIC to Control

[Divinorum]

So as the title says, I have a Yale LFIC that for the life of me I can't get to control. It's my understanding that in order to pick to control you must pick to operating first and then lift the last pin all the way in the back with the plug rotated to the right spot. I *think* this one has 7 pins total. Does this sound right? Any tips/tricks/advice? Thanks in advance Picture attached.

[Safecrackin Sammy]

Drill a 1/8" hole thru the side of the mortise housing to put pressure on the control lug with a thumbtack while picking the lock as normal. The control key for those is simply the master key with an extended tip.

[Divinorum]

Thanks for your response. This is a lock in my collection so I would rather not drill any holes. That was my understanding that the control key is simply a copy of the operating key but with an extra cut to set the back pin for the control lug. You are saying that Yale LFICs are master keyed as well? There is actually a second shear line for control?

[Safecrackin Sammy]

The cylinder can be SKD (single keyed diferent) or masterkeyed. Any key that turns the cylinder can become a control/core key if the cuts are copied onto the control key blank that has the extended tip.

There is not a separate shear line for the control on these as you would see in a SFIC such as Best/Falcon, etc.

[Divinorum]

Gotcha, that's what I was thinking. Any advice on how to set that back pin for control? Is there a sweet spot the core needs to be turned to?

[demux]

I don't have a lot of experience with Yale, but it sounds like what Sammy is saying is that the control "lug" is actually just a spring loaded pin in the back that is retracted as the plug turns if the key being used has the extra length required to engage it. Sort of how the Schlage LFIC's work. If that's the case, I'm wondering since you already have it open, if you turn it back to just slightly before it would lock up again, then put a decent size hook all the way to the back and try rotating the core back clockwise with a tension wrench, if you could just grab that extra pin and have it release.

[jeffmoss26]

https://www.lockreference.com/how-yales ... light=yale

[Safecrackin Sammy]

I don't have a lot of experience with Yale, but it sounds like what Sammy is saying is that the control "lug" is actually just a spring loaded pin in the back that is retracted as the plug turns if the key being used has the extra length required to engage it. Sort of how the Schlage LFIC's work. If that's the case, I'm wondering since you already have it open, if you turn it back to just slightly before it would lock up again, then put a decent size hook all the way to the back and try rotating the core back clockwise with a tension wrench, if you could just grab that extra pin and have it release.

This is correct and probably the best way to get it out by picking short of the side drill attack I mentioned previously.

[Raymond]

Many times I have had to make a control key to get these cores out. But I had a working key. The control pin fits above a full width blank. In other words - a no cut. I have heard of someone actually cutting off the tip of a blank and pushing it past the operating pins. Then just pick the operating pins and the core should slide out. You would have to know for certain the length and number of pins so the cut-off would go far enough but not block the operating last pin. Just some observations. Good luck.

[Divinorum]

Thank you to everyone who replied and gave advice on this one. SUCCESS! I used a very high reach hook to set the control "pin" and held it in place while turning with some heavy tension and...open.

[Raymond]

Ahh! The sweet feeling of success!

[Peter Martin]

https://www.lockreference.com/how-yales-large-format-interchangeable-core-works/?highlight=yale

Thanks for posting the link to the video. That's the best explanation of the Control Key and pin operation I've seen. All other pins are at the shear line. But the Control Mey with an extra cut at the tip, engages a final deep pin, pushing it up. That pin extends from the core to engage and retract the core lug.
Simple design. Now I want one. They're not popular in this area.
Pete

[Squelchtone]

woohoo! nicely done!

good to see you around the forum!

Squelchtone