Opening my Herring Hall Marvin Safe

[RBM52]

I inherited an old Herring Hall Marvin safe from my Grandfather. I have the combination, but the dial will only turn 3 full rotations either direction before coming to a hard stop. The stop points both directions is around 60 on the dial. Here are the combination instructions (with some numbers redacted):

Left 4 times to nn
Right 3 times to nn
Left 2 times to nn
Right Slow to 0
Opens on almost to 80

I've included pictures of the Dial, Handle & Dial, Serial Number and the safe itself.

Any suggestions on what the problem might be, or what I can do to resolve would be appreciated. It may be that the dial is internally damaged, but the stops feel purposeful, versus due to corrosion or damage. I also don't fully understand the "Right Slow to 0, Opens on almost to 80" verbiage. I have no experience with safes, so any advice would be helpful.

Here are the pictures:

[Squelchtone]

Once the dial is stopped hard on 60, have you given the handle a good jerk in either direction to see if the door is possibly ready to open? does the dial move at all when you move the handle up and down?

[femurat]

Exactly my thought. Already open safes are the most difficult to open...

Cheers

[MartinHewitt]

Three turns and stops in both directions at 60? I can't imagine it to be open. All locks should block when the bolt work is open. It sounds more like wheel 1 is somehow blocked. Has the safe been moved lately? Is it standing level?

[RBM52]

The safe hasn't been moved in about 7 years, and is sitting level. I've pulled/jerked on the handle both while turning the dial and while its stationary, and it doesn't seem to have any impact or impose any movement on the dial.

[Safecrackin Sammy]

With three turns and a dead stop it almost sounds like a lock mounting screw has fallen down in to the wheel pack. If they wedge just right it will jam up hard.

Maybe try bouncing it with a block of wood and a hammer. Lay it on its back to neutralize any loose screws etc.

Doesnt look like its had an easy life.

[RBM52]

Thanks for the suggestion, I will try that today. The safe seems to be structurally in good shape, no dents or rust. But someone did paint it long ago with some poor quality brown paint.

[RBM52]

The suggestion to use a hammer eventually worked. I turned the safe on it's back and upside down, and tapped using a 2x8 and hammer. Dial still wouldn't turn. While upside down, I used just the hammer and tapped on the safe body around the dial, and eventually the dial turned without stopping. It doesn't turn freely in different points of the rotation, but no more hard stops. I tried the combination, but had no luck in opening the safe. While turning the dial, I couldn't hear any plate movement like I do on my modern safes. Not sure if I should or not. So I have a few questions that maybe someone could help with:

1. Is it possible that there are parts "froze up" inside the dial mechanism? And if so, are there any penetrants or lubricants that are recommended that may help?

2. I still don't understand the combo instructions that say "Slow to 0, Opens on Almost to 80". Does this mean turn to the 0 mark, but keep going past that to 80 before the handle will open the safe?

[MartinHewitt]

Left 4 times to N1
Right 3 times to N2
Left 2 times to N3
Right Slow to 0
Opens on almost to 80

Turn left (=counterclockwise) until N1 is (at least) the fourth time at the index (center top). (E.g. if you start at 20 with N1=40, turning left for 20 numbers reaches 40 the first time. Three more turns and it is the fourth time.)
Turn right until N2 is (exactly) the third time at the index. (If you turn at one point to far, restart from the beginning.)
Turn left until N3 is the second time at the index.
Turn right for opening. "the slow to 0" is probably not necessary. "Opens on almost to 80" means probably that the dial will stop at 81 or 82 or so when it is fully unlocked and the locking bolt retracted. The safe should then open.

[RBM52]

The safe is now open. I sprayed some PB Blaster Silicone in the dial while the safe was on its back, and let it sit for a while. Then tried the combination. The dial still didn't turn freely, but I could hear movement/noise inside the dial as I was going through the turns for the combination. The input regarding "slow to zero" not necessary is accurate, the safe opened around the 82 mark. The inside of the safe is a mess. Lots of decaying documents from my Grandfather's rice farming business. And what looks like water damage, and plenty of rust. Thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions!

[MartinHewitt]

Great, that you got it open. Just to know what's inside or not inside is often more valuable than what is actually inside. In case you trash that safe I am sure there are many people who would be interested in its lock.

[Squelchtone]

Thank you for taking the time to come back and tell us you got it open. So many people ask for help, then we never hear from them again.

Thank you and glad the members here were able to point you in the right direction, congrats on sticking to it and getting it open!

Squelchtone

[Safecrackin Sammy]

Fantastic!

Glad to hear it worked out and thanks for the update.

Sorry the inside was such a mess but like Forest says it happens......

Any pics or updates on the inside of the lock itself to determine root cause would be much appreciated and may help others in the future.

Peace