some questions about NFPA80 and locks

[seanauto]

HI there

I am prepairing a test about Locksmith, here are some questions that I cannot get answers,would you please help me?

1.Who has the authority to close the fire door after it was open.

2.There is a belcony on the top of the egress, what should we do?

3.Which lock manufacture does not provide a ultimated listed cylinder?

4.Whick lock can change key pulling out direction?

5.When we impressing a lock, there are no marks on 2 of the cuts, what does this mean?

6.5 pins schlage master key has how many change keys?

Thank you

[GWiens2001]

I am no expert, but will attempt a few answers.

1. I would think this would vary by municipality, but probably the fire department.
2. Be sure there are marked stairs or ladder.
3. There must be dozens. Probably a multiple choice test answer and choose.
4. Elevator Fire Key.
5. It means that those pins are either at the correct bittings or that they are not binding yet.
6. It depends on the design of the system. How many master keys? How many chambers are mastered? If one chamber has a single master wafer, then 1 change key. If every chamber has maximum number of two step progression master wafers and only 1 master key and a single pin chamber bitting reserved for the master key, then 2500 theoretical change keys. It can get quite messy if you do that, and it completely destroys the security of the system. So again, how many change keys depends on your system design since it can vary from 1 to 2500 change keys.

Keep in mind that I am not a professional locksmith, and have little knowledge about fire codes across the country or internationally. But I do know a thing or two about locks.

Gordon

[seanauto]

thank you very much

[demux]

I am no expert, but will attempt a few answers.

1. I would think this would vary by municipality, but probably the fire department.

I'm not a fire code expert either, but re-read this one carefully. As stated it seems to be either a mistake or a trick question. I can't think of a scenario where any AHJ would have any restrictions on anyone or anything (including an alarm condition) closing a fire door, as closed is the safe position. The more pertinent question would seem to be, who can open it again after it's closed.

[GWiens2001]

I am no expert, but will attempt a few answers.

1. I would think this would vary by municipality, but probably the fire department.

I'm not a fire code expert either, but re-read this one carefully. As stated it seems to be either a mistake or a trick question. I can't think of a scenario where any AHJ would have any restrictions on anyone or anything (including an alarm condition) closing a fire door, as closed is the safe position. The more pertinent question would seem to be, who can open it again after it's closed.

I was thinking that maybe something must be reset in municipalities where a fire door is hooked up to contact the fire department. You are probably right that anyone can close it. But who must be informed? That was the reasoning behind my answer.

Gordon

[demux]

I was thinking that maybe something must be reset in municipalities where a fire door is hooked up to contact the fire department. You are probably right that anyone can close it. But who must be informed? That was the reasoning behind my answer.

Gordon

Interesting, most of the ones I've seen (that have any sort of hold-open function at all) just use electro-magnetic holds tied into the fire alarm system. When the system goes into alarm (or even trouble, depending on configuration or requirements of AHJ) power to all the holds is cut and all the fire doors in the building close by the action of their closers. I hadn't considered the case where the fire doors themselves might be actively tied into the fire alarm system...

[GWiens2001]

I was thinking that maybe something must be reset in municipalities where a fire door is hooked up to contact the fire department. You are probably right that anyone can close it. But who must be informed? That was the reasoning behind my answer.

Gordon

Interesting, most of the ones I've seen (that have any sort of hold-open function at all) just use electro-magnetic holds tied into the fire alarm system. When the system goes into alarm (or even trouble, depending on configuration or requirements of AHJ) power to all the holds is cut and all the fire doors in the building close by the action of their closers. I hadn't considered the case where the fire doors themselves might be actively tied into the fire alarm system...

I was thinking something in the fire alarm system must be reset, not in the lock itself. That way in case of a false alarm, the fire department has a record and possibly a way to cancel the call. It would make sense to me for a fire door to be tied into the fire alarm system.

Gordon

[demux]

I was thinking something in the fire alarm system must be reset, not in the lock itself. That way in case of a false alarm, the fire department has a record and possibly a way to cancel the call. It would make sense to me for a fire door to be tied into the fire alarm system.

Gordon

Yeah. Although where a fire door is actively monitored, I'd think that manually opening or closing it would be more cause a supervisory alarm, rather than full fire alarm (at least not without a second input like heat/smoke sensor, water flow, etc). I could see a lot of false alarms being triggered that way... I believe in most areas a building owner/manger can clear a supervisory alarm without having to alert the fire department or call out a tech.

[Squelchtone]

where's Evan when you need him? He always knew this stuff.

[cledry]

1.Who has the authority to close the fire door after it was open.

Should be self closing.

2.There is a belcony on the top of the egress, what should we do?

Change the spelling.

3.Which lock manufacture does not provide a ultimated listed cylinder?

Lustre Line

4.Whick lock can change key pulling out direction?

Yes

5.When we impressing a lock, there are no marks on 2 of the cuts, what does this mean?

They forgot to put a pin or wafer in that chamber.

6.5 pins schlage master key has how many change keys?

Theoretical or practical. Which cutter was used to originate keys. Provide the cut for the master key for correct answer.

[jeffmoss26]

1.Who has the authority to close the fire door after it was open.

Should be self closing.

2.There is a belcony on the top of the egress, what should we do?

Change the spelling.

3.Which lock manufacture does not provide a ultimated listed cylinder?

Lustre Line

4.Whick lock can change key pulling out direction?

Yes

5.When we impressing a lock, there are no marks on 2 of the cuts, what does this mean?

They forgot to put a pin or wafer in that chamber.

6.5 pins schlage master key has how many change keys?

Theoretical or practical. Which cutter was used to originate keys. Provide the cut for the master key for correct answer.

lolol

[GWiens2001]

1.Who has the authority to close the fire door after it was open.

Should be self closing.

2.There is a belcony on the top of the egress, what should we do?

Change the spelling.

3.Which lock manufacture does not provide a ultimated listed cylinder?

Lustre Line

4.Whick lock can change key pulling out direction?

Yes

5.When we impressing a lock, there are no marks on 2 of the cuts, what does this mean?

They forgot to put a pin or wafer in that chamber.

6.5 pins schlage master key has how many change keys?

Theoretical or practical. Which cutter was used to originate keys. Provide the cut for the master key for correct answer.

And there, folks, is someone who knows his stuff.

Gordon