Need help spinning Yale lock on "old bank safe"

[RobertPgh]

Hello all,

I've got this old safe, which says it is a "Joplin Safe & Scale Co" that has been in our family for quite some time. I've got the combination but have never opened it myself, the last time I saw it opened was over 10 years ago. The dial on the lock says "Yale", and the handle has a "Y476" pressed into it. Pictures attached below.

The dialing instructions I have are simply in the style of "R42-L50-R20" and don't indicate number of spins. I know we can't talk about manipulation instructions here, but I was wondering if anyone could point me to some guidance on which directions / numbers of spins to use. Most stuff I've read translates "R" to clockwise, but I can't seem to get the safe to open.

I've been attempting to dial clockwise stopping on the first 1st combo number after passing it three/four times, then counterclockwise passing the 2nd combo twice and stopping at it on the third, then dialing clockwise passing the 3rd combo number once and stopping at the second time I've dialed it. I've tried this opposite as well, using counterclockwise dialing to start the whole process out.

If it is allowed I can describe what happens when I apply pressure to the handle while dialing, but I'm not sure if that is too much "manipulation" conversation.

Thanks in advance, and if anyone has tips on how to restore / maintain this beautiful safe I'd love to get some recommendations. Looking at a lot of the other photos of similar safes online makes me happy about the condition of the safe currently.

[GWiens2001]

Your question is not a manipulation question, but an operation and opening question. No problems there.

When you turn the handle, does it bind the dial at all? If no, then after dialing the last number, reverse dialing direction and turn the dial until it stops (less than one full turn, usually around 95 to 5 range).

Also, am used to Yale safe locks dialing the opposite direction as most safe locks like the S&G newer locks.

Keep in mind, I am not a professional safe technician.

Gordon

[MartinHewitt]

It might be a friction fence lock. Normally you will be able to hear running gears when you spin it. They are generally opened with a final L/CCW turn, i.e. the first number at least the fourth time at the index around R/CW, the second exactly the third time at the index around L/CCW, the third number exactly the second time at the index around R/CW and then L/CCW until the stop. From your description you should have done it right. Perhaps just the final L/CCW turn to stop was missing.

[RobertPgh]

Thanks for the tips so far!

When I apply pressure to the handle, I can get the wheel to bind pretty consistently at two different places when spinning R/CW and L/CCW. The range is +/- 5 of the first combination number I have on paper. Everywhere else in the dial (from both directions) moves pretty easy.

I did try adding the final counter turn, but admittedly I stopped after a half spin, as it didn't seem to be doing anything / didn't feel any different. I can definitely try to spin a little more.

I also threw in a test with starting the initial dialing sequence in the opposite direction, but didn't have any luck with that either (also with the final counter spin).

I'm not sure that I can hear any gears spinning. I'm not sure I'd know what they sound like though to be fair. I can hear various noises but right now can only distinguish between 2 of those noises. The first noise is the noise of the pin on the drive cam hitting a fly. The other noise is maybe friction or wear from contact between either the dial and dial ring or spindle with spindle tube. It doesn't seem to have any pattern. I've put some oil between the dial and dial ring though which seems to help.

[00247]

It looks like it may be a generic small safe of the times branded by Joplin safe. I have a couple small ones with Yale locks and on one you have to do this; dial as you are but after 20, turn left to 0 and try the handle. I don't have a picture of the lock on file.

If it has this style Yale used on some small safes, then you need may need to dial to a 4th number. So the same as above but after 20 stop on every number going left trying the handle on each one. This one has the drive wheel notch at 28. I assume they made assorted drive wheels with different numbers?



That's all I got other than I would be shocked to find a friction fence in one of these small safes.

[MartinHewitt]

Maybe the numbers are in reverse order? 3R to 20, 2L to 50, 1R to 42, then turn handle.

[bitbuster]

Safe looks Alpine-like. Some did have a 100 dial but it wasn't a Yale dial.

[MartinHewitt]

A HHM with a Yale HE?

[RobertPgh]

00247, I think you're right, after spending the week thinking about it, I recall that when I was a kid we had taken the back panel off of the safe door when it was unlocked one time, and it looked very similar to what your picture showed. Two bolts extended outward into the door frame and there was that odd mechanical shaped item where the lever/handle was attached to.

(I wanted to take some time to make sure because I wasn't sure if that was a memory of the actual safe or just of pictures I'd been looking at.)

Still no luck with the dialing modifications though. I added a final counter turn to 0, as well as a final counter turn stopping at every number along the way around for a full turn.

I did also try your idea MartinHewitt but no luck there either

I'll keep at it though!