Antique Sargent padlock, please help.

[Cope]

Hi folks. This is my first time here so be easy. I have a very old Sargent warded pad lock. I made a key out of an old Sawzall blade and I get about 95 degrees of rotation out of the key and then it hard stops. How much turn do these require?

I used Dykem on the "key" and I don't see any interference.

Any ideas what I am doing wrong, or why it won't open?


Thank you for your help and advice.

[GWiens2001]

Think I know the answer, but do you have a picture of the lock in question?

Gordon

[Cope]

Im not sure i can post it beacuse my photo hosting site is holding my stuff hostage.

Both side have a "squished" four leaf clover shape with the word SARGENT inside a rectangle and small stippling all around.

The hasp? Is square not round.
The lock body is 3x2.25x1.25
Entire lock is just over 4" tall
It weighs about 2.5 to 5 pounds.

Thank you!

[GWiens2001]

Im not sure i can post it beacuse my photo hosting site is holding my stuff hostage.

Both side have a "squished" four leaf clover shape with the word SARGENT inside a rectangle and small stippling all around.

The hasp? Is square not round.
The lock body is 3x2.25x1.25
Entire lock is just over 4" tall
It weighs about 2.5 to 5 pounds.

Thank you!

Uhmmm... Are you sure about that weight?

Gordon

[Cope]

I am not sure but it has substantial weight.



The bottom plate is held in by two 1/8" by 1 1/8 pins.

I believe knocking the pins out is futile untill the lock is open, correct

Thank you.

[Cope]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dKUePqDb9s2Rn8dL8

Here is a picture of the lock i am trying to open.

Thank you.

[GWiens2001]

That is a warded lever lock. It has wards and levers that must be accounted for.

Do you have a picture of the key? The wear pattern might give a clue to the problem. The problem may be wear on the key, wear on the levers, wear on both, broken lever springs, dirt or corrosion inside the lock, or various other issues. Also, the cuts you made for the levers are possibly (probably) incorrect.

From your description, I’d guess that the lever cuts are incorrect. The wards are not the problem as you can turn the key about 90 degrees. So my guesses would be incorrect key cuts for the levers, worn levers or broken lever springs.

Gordon

[Cope]

I have access to two key blanks but no actual key.

I have a pic of a key and i can see the wards in the lock.

The two levers are functional. I can pic then one at a time but can seem to get both at once. That is why i started making a skeleton key.

I think you may be on to something saying the levers are worn down. I can feal the spring tension on the levers when picking but they "key" dosen't seem to be engaging anything. I can not make it wider as it would not fit in the lock.

Humm....

Removing the pins is pointless with out the lock open, yes?

Any advice as to how I should move forward?

Thank you for the advice.

[Cope]

This is not the lock or Key that I am working on, but it is the same lock.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iGsuxVbcb31s4jsC7

The wards in my lock are at the same height as the key in the picture. Just today I realized the "Wards" MOVE! I think they are wafers?

At the bottom of the key way i can feel what I believe to be two large cam levers. All springs feel to be in working order.

I think I have to manipulate the wafers and the twin cams all at once..

I think this just got a lot more difficult.

Any help or advice is welcome.
Thank you.

[Cope]

This is the closest thing i can find and I believe it to be very similar inside as my "wards" are spring loaded.


https://youtu.be/rG6L5-phB_c

[Squelchtone]

Wow that's a big lock.. I dont think you'll be able to open it, you should just send it to me for proper "recycling" .......on my shelf with the other bad children.

Did you make throat cuts on the key by the bow like the key in the photo you posted? actually, yeah, could we see what your key looks like so far?

Gordon or Bill: would smoking the blank, or polishing it with wet/dry sand papers to improve the surface touching the inside of the padlock work better here than a Sharpie or Dyechem?

Cope, take a look at Gwiens2001's thread here with nice instructional photos: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=57303#p417895

It will be exciting to see this lock opened!
Squelchtone

[GWiens2001]

Using a Sharpie would help to see where things are located in the lock. Using a hard steel blade is extra difficult since it can cause the brass levers to wear very quickly.

Those "springy wards" are the levers we have been talking about. A ward does not move.

Gordon

[jeffmoss26]

did someone say Sargent?!

[Cope]

Yes?

My new approach is to make a tension wrench to lever on the lever while single pin picking the moveable parts.

Sound reasonable?

Thanks again!

[Squelchtone]

Yes?

My new approach is to make a tension wrench to lever on the lever while single pin picking the moveable parts.

Sound reasonable?

Thanks again!

I think you're making something difficult out of something simple. but that's just me...