S&G safe/vault dial stuck

[Dave844]

Hello everybody,

I have a bunch of S&G safes/locks in my organization and I am currently changing combinations on all of them. I came accross a problem during the combo change on our vault door; when the change key is inserted and turned 90 degrees CCW, I can only rotate the dial for 1 turn before it stops and can't go on with the combination change. I opened the back of the lock, aligned properly the key holes but it still doesn't turn more than 1 turn. Model is T6830-MP.

Any ideas of what is happening ?

Thanks!

[MartinHewitt]

If you used the change key while the lock was open at some point, it can be, that the locking mechanism is unlocked without the key and locked with the key turned, or possibly only with one or two wheels. Can you turn more of you just insert the key without turning?

[Dave844]

I unlocked the vault door, opened it, locked it while open and started the procedure to change the combo:

Dialed the old combination with the last digit still at the changing index, inserted the change key, rotated CCW 90degrees, dialed the new combo, rotated key CW/removed it and tested the combo 2-3 times without success.

I then opened the back cover, aligned all the key holes on the wheel, put the cover back, inserted the key, rotated CCW 90degrees but this time I couldn't rotate the dial for more than 1 turn.

[GWiens2001]

I agree with Martin. The locks on the wheels may be out of phase. (One or more wheels may be in the locked (combination change) position while the remaining ones are in the unlocked position).

Gordon

[Dave844]

I see, how can I confirm that this is the case? And how can I fix this problem?

[MartinHewitt]

If you open the lock and look at the nut where the change key passes through, you can see there a mark. If this mark is pointing away from the center of the wheel, then the it is locked as it should normally be. You need to check all of the wheels. You can look through the gates to the wheels behind the last one. To fix it you can disassemble the wheel pack and turn the nut of single wheels with the change key to the proper position. The clip might be a pain to remove though. Another option is to fix it with the change key by turning 1, 2 or 3 wheels as necessary.

Here is a photo of a wheel with a slightly misaligned nut: https://keypicking.com/download/file.ph ... &mode=view
You can see the mark on the nut and an additional mark on the wheel, but the last mark doesn't have to be there. Aligned means locked. 90° off means unlocked.

[Dave844]

Thank you for the information, I'll look into it in the morning and try to fix it.
Sadly I am not authorized to see the picture you linked.

[MartinHewitt]

Maybe that one: http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o52 ... i8n7lo.jpg

[GWiens2001]

Rather than disassemble the wheel pack, just use the tip of the change key to turn only the locks that are misaligned. Use the gates so you only have to change the problem wheel(s).

Gordon

[Dave844]

Maybe that one: http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o52 ... i8n7lo.jpg

I got that one, thanks!
Just to confirm, if both marks (nut&wheel) are aligned it is locked and in the position it should be so I might have one or 2 that are turned 90degrees ?

Rather than disassemble the wheel pack, just use the tip of the change key to turn only the locks that are misaligned. Use the gates so you only have to change the problem wheel(s).

Gordon

Thanks for the tip, it should be simpler that way indeed.

[Squelchtone]

Are you using a 3 wheel change key on 4 wheel lock by any chance?

[Safecrackin Sammy]

With that amount of turn it would point to the wheel is not unlocked for some reason as others have stated.

Are you sure of the part number?

[GWiens2001]

Are you using a 3 wheel change key on 4 wheel lock by any chance?

+1

Gordon

[Dave844]

Update!

I fixed one of the lock, there was a misaligment of the nuts in the wheels, some was in the unlocked mode.
As for lock #2, which is the most important one, I did the same thing re-aligned the nuts and I could turn the dial again.

But now the problem I have with this second lock is that it doesn't take the combo change and I did the same procedure as all the locks I have here including the one I fixed earlier. I'm trying the combo after the change and I can't open the lock.

[GWiens2001]

Now check all the wheels on the lock in question and make sure that they are in the locked position.

This thread shows what is going on inside one of the locks. It may help you see what we are talking about. I am a visual and tactile learner, so pictures with descriptions help me understand better than just words.

Gordon