Plain Vintage Safe w/Yale Lock... ID?

[Nephew_1]

Hello,
I have a very plain small safe with a Yale combo lock that I inherited from my uncle. Have wanted to see what is inside this since I was a kid, now it is mine (I used to beg my uncle to open it, my Aunt would joke he forgot the combo.)

Safe is dark green (army? my uncle was in the US Navy... so it might be from that period) with absolutely NO identifying names or numbers. The only text anywhere is the Yale on the dial face. Safe dates from at least the 60's, but not likely older than the 50's but I really don't know for sure, it just doesn't look like a 30's style safe... too light, too modern manufacturing. It seems relatively flimsy for a floor safe.

Was hoping someone could ID the safe and the particular model lock so I can be sure I am using the proper turns. In particular I am wondering what to expect for the last turns and handle movement when the correct combination is dialed in. I have searched google images, tried to find lists of yale combo locks online, but so far have not seen anything that matches. Strange since it seems so generic, feels mass produced, would expect more to be around.

I know we cannot get into manipulation here, but fwiw I am getting the kind of feedback from the lock one would expect from a three combo wheel friction gate. Not asking for manipulation info, it is just that since I am new to this I am hoping someone can provide the model and/or physical description of the lock (or where to get it) so I can be sure I have the right picture in mind for what is happening inside. Like if I am missing a combo wheel. Site has been great resource so far, so thanks for any additional info!

[Squelchtone]

I'm only guessing but the lock is probably a Yale 0700

Squelchtone

[MartinHewitt]

How many numbers do you have?

If you turn the handle to the opening direction, does the dial get stuck?

[Nephew_1]

I have three numbers. Ran them twice so far, did get better results the second time, first number seems solid and third chart read tighter to a gate like shape where I expected it from first pass... so it could just be a matter of practice. I tried the 6 combos from the 3 numbers I have in both directions but the last turn never grabs. Getting the correct order, I mean locating which wheel is delivering the gate once I have a number isolated, may be an issue if it has a knock on effect for the next round.

The turning the handle does not effect the dialing or mechanism that I can perceive. Feels like the handle, when unlocked, will release latches at top and bottom of door... bolt from lock mechanism does not appear to anchor into left frame/wall (ie. the door pulls away most at center, a little less at top, and holds most at bottom, pulls away enough at center to just see some of inside of safe, maybe 3-4 mm.)

So will the final turn pick up and hold at the contact point ? Can you turn past where it should open and reset the lock or will it hold when correct? (again fwiw: I can only feel the contact point when turning CCW.)

Of course I am assuming it is not broken. Seems to work well, though one area (40-60) is binding a bit. As I have work the dial over and over the lock appears to be operating smoother. We are becoming friends! It could probably be forced easily with a pulley or even a crowbar, but I would very much like to keep it intact, and looking forward to solving the puzzle as well. So far I am amazed and enjoying the process... just afraid I am going down the wrong path even though I am seeing the right signposts along the way. If you know what I mean.

[MartinHewitt]

With three numbers and no binding there are two possibilities. The most likely is 4L-3R-2L-R. The less likely is 4R-3L-2R-L. That means turn so that the first number is at least the fourth time at the index (this clears all previous dialing), then reverse direction and turn so that the second number is exactly the third time at the index, then reverse again and turn so that the third number is exactly the second time at the index, then again a reversal, where the dial should stop, when the lock is open. L means counter-clockwise, R means clockwise.

[Nephew_1]

Is there a possibility of a fourth wheel if it is an 0700 (or not for that matter)?
Feels like it would be overkill for a safe that could probably be bent open.
So it doesn't seem to indicate more than three, but I am new to this so I might be reading it wrong.

[MartinHewitt]

Four wheels are rare and you have only three numbers, but you can check wheel pickup. Turn 5 or 6 times to e.g. 50. Turn back to about 10 numbers before 50, then turn quickly over 50. Is there a click? Can you feel a pickup? If yes, then that is a wheel. Continue to again about 10 numbers 50 and repeat this process until you can't feel/hear anything any more. The number of pickups are the number of wheels.

[Nephew_1]

Well, I do have three numbers... but they are not set in stone, or on paper for that matter .

Three wheels does sound right though. As does L4-R3-L2-R1.

Wanted to be as sure as possible...


...before I take another crack at it. "yeeaaaaahhhh!!!"


Sorry.
Any idea on the make of the safe? Lack of any identifying markings, no company name or serial number or anything, seems strange. Maybe it could be homemade?

[Squelchtone]

Well, I do have three numbers... but they are not set in stone, or on paper for that matter .

Three wheels does sound right though. As does L4-R3-L2-R1.

Wanted to be as sure as possible...


...before I take another crack at it. "yeeaaaaahhhh!!!"


Sorry.
Any idea on the make of the safe? Lack of any identifying markings, no company name or serial number or anything, seems strange. Maybe it could be homemade?

As you are finding out it takes having the correct combination, and knowing the dialing procedure to open a safe.

Just for kicks could you write down in long form your exact procedure for entering the combination including what your last step would be before trying to turn the silver handle

How sure are you that the 3 number combination you have is for this container?

Squelchtone

[Squelchtone]

reminds me of this Korean War era US military field safe...




Squelchtone

[L4R3L2]

Is there a distinct clicking/ratcheting sound/feel when turning the dial?

[Safecrackin Sammy]

It looks like more of a cabinet made for shipboard metal furniture that has a safe lock on it. Should be 4R-3L-2R left to stop to open.

[Nephew_1]

shipboard metal furniture

- That would make sense. Is there a reason it would start R instead of L if it were?

distinct clicking/ratcheting sound/feel

- I'd say faint but yes. I will confirm this next time I work on it.

@squelchtone -
The combination is not certain at all. A work in process. Trying not to step on the forums toes here, so not asking about this part in particular. As far as it goes though: I have what appears to be a classic tract describing the process and am fairly confident in the feedback I am getting from the lock. Strong indication of a single contact point when turning L and good indication on the number of wheels though that one was a little more subtle. Result of stepping through the dial for first number seems solid, after that my second attempt was better on the second and third numbers but it will probably take another do-over, at least. Third pass is kind of giving two hits around indicating area, I am hoping with practice or working the old lock that resolves itself. The three numbers I have found I tried in their six possible combinations and dialed in both directions as described below, no luck. So before I started again I wanted to find as much as I can about the lock to be sure of what I am picturing inside. Mainly concerned about an overlooked wheel for obvious reasons. Second concern was entering combo correctly but then not doing the right thing with dial/handle at that point and resetting the lock before it opens.

Procedure: I am turning in the starting direction enough times to pick up all the wheels, so usually more than 4 turns because I do a few extra to be sure. Then I reverse, pass where I reversed twice to pick up 2,3 and then to next number which I think is equivalent to stopping there on the third time. Reverse again, pass that number once to pick up 3 and then to last number. At this point I was hoping the lock would "click" like in the movies but it probably doesn't in real life. After finishing the last number in combo I reverse again and... it just turns. From what I have read on this turn it should "stop" or latch at some point (contact?), releasing - or drawing out? - the bolt. As mentioned, pressure on the handle at this or any other time has no effect on dial action.

[L4R3L2]

Not feeling distinct clicking is a good thing, as it rules out the lock as being a manipulation resistant Yale B30 found on some safes of military origin.

Where are you feeling the contact point?

[Nephew_1]

Contact point is usually @ 4.5