Victor safe no lever

[Kimbolicus]

I have this Victor safe that I cannot get into. The previous owner gave me what she says is 100% the combination... of course, it doesn't open the safe. I have a few questions.

First, the combination pattern she gave me is:
xx 2L
xx 2R
xx 2R
xx 1R
This seems completely against any dial pattern I am aware of for a four number combination. Other posts pertaining to Victor safes seem to be a more traditional 4,3,2,1 pattern.

Second, the dial does not spin very smoothly and has a few real tough spots. I know that WD-40 is a no no but, what if I get this 600 lb monster on its back and spray some 3-in-one lock dry lube around the dial? Would that be equally ill advised?

I'm including pics for reference. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[edocdab]

I will let the questions be answered by the experts here but two things I want to mention:
Forum rules dictate we cannot give public manipulation advice, so keep that in mind if you need to dig deeper into that subject.
Second: What a nice looking safe! I hope you manage to open it and fix the lock, if indeed anything is wrong with it. That's worth the effort of a careful opening and asking questions about on this forum

[MartinHewitt]

It has probably a Yale L-1 lock with three wheels. The normal combination has three numbers, but the final stopping location is often unnecessarily added and the direction of rotation might be wrong in which case there would be indeed some sort of fourth number necessary. Standard dialling on this lock is 4 times left, 3 times right, 2 times left, right until it stops. The pattern she gave you is basically a 4 times right only to the last number. (EDIT: Which is an impossible combination for this lock.) You could try also 4 times right, 3 times left, 2 times right, left until you feel the lever drop, then right until it stops. In old unserviced safes old oil can make the lever moving with more difficulty. As the lever in the L-1 is controlled by gravity only it might be reluctant to drop. In this case you would need a rubber mallet or so to persuade it.

I am not a fan of WD40 and to much oil, so I won't give a statement about your idea.

[Kimbolicus]

About that rubber mallet. How hard and in what location exactly? I’ve tried using one but not terribly hard and just on the door around the dial but not on it

[MartinHewitt]

I would first try it without mallet, then over the dial where the lever is located. The aim is to not damage the surface of safe. But it is really just in case it won't open with the right dialling. It won't fix wrong combination dialling.

[Kimbolicus]

Understood. I have been given what I was told was the correct combination. I have tried it in various patterns from the one that I was given to the four left three right to left one right pattern all the way from reversing that to the using the last number as a stop position. All of these have been unsuccessful. I fear that the drop mechanism is frozen. I really don’t want to have it drilled because it is such a good looking safe and in great condition. Just wondering if victory safe has some weird quirk that I have not been made aware of

[MartinHewitt]

There is a photo at viewtopic.php?p=481779#p481779 and a bit down some "try-out combinations". I really don't know how valuable these combinations are. So this lock is nothing special. Somewhere around 0 are normally the contact points. When the lever nose is inside the cam gate it drops down a bit and to get out of it on the left and right side you will feel a bump. If you try multiple right/left variants of combination entry and at one there are the bumps more noticeable than with the others, that would be the situation where you should try the mallet. The bumps should then get more noticeable until a right turn opens the lock or only get the dial stuck. In the later case more malleting.

[Kimbolicus]

I actually went to buy this safe originally just to use it. I thought it was a very cool looking old safe and I wanted to use it in the house. It wasn’t until I got there to look at it that she told me she wasn’t able to open it. She swore that the combination was correct she had gotten it from her mother and was 100% sure that it was the right combination. I keep telling myself that with the correct dial pattern I will be able to open it with that combination and not have to get too far into manipulation. I am finding that I am probably going to have to teach myself a little bit of manipulation to get the safe open but I am determined not to have it drilled. I will continue to try it And appreciate any input from this forum. Wish me luck!

[MartinHewitt]

The korrekt pattern is 4L-3R-2L-R. Safe owners are very often misremembering stuff and are trying to covering up stupid things they did to the safe. With a non-sensical dialling pattern the first is likely.

[Kimbolicus]

Well, I have tried every dialing pattern suggested. Rubber mallet, no mallet, rearranging numbers of the combination I was given into every possible combination consisting of those 4 numbers. I have tried them all using the last number and just turning looking for a stop on the last turn to the right. Nothing has worked. I have come to the conclusion that either the combination is incorrect or the lock mechanism is frozen or damaged. I have never tried any kind of safe manipulation. I suppose I can start teaching myself with internet sources. I don't suppose there is a member in the Charleston, SC area that wants to take a crack at it? All of the locksmiths I have contacted immediately speak of drilling and I really don't want to go that route.

[GWiens2001]

Turn the dial right at least four times and stop the dial at 50.

Now start turning the dial left. At about 50 you should feel the spindle pick up the first wheel. Write down the number where it picks up the wheel.

Continue turning the dial left. Again, around 50 the next wheel should be picked up. Write down that number as well.

Keep doing this until the dial is not picking up any more wheels, writing down the number where each successive wheel is picked up. Go an extra turn to be sure. Stop at 50.

Now repeat the process in reverse, making note of each wheel’s pick up number while dialing to the right.

Now repeat all the above steps two more times, carefully noting the numbers each time.

You are looking for the differences in pick up numbers for between each wheel in both directions, and for consistency in those numbers when the process is repeated. This can help us diagnose the issue, if there is an issue other than a possible incorrect combination

Reply with the turning direction and the pick up numbers in each direction for each of the three times you do this. It should take less than five minutes.

Note: the pick up points will not be related to the combination.

Gordon

[Kimbolicus]

It's very hard to feel where the wheels are picked up as the dial is not operating very smoothly. There are a few spots where the dial tends to stick and become difficult to turn. I will give it my best effort though

[Squelchtone]

Well, I have tried every dialing pattern suggested. Rubber mallet, no mallet, rearranging numbers of the combination I was given into every possible combination consisting of those 4 numbers. I have tried them all using the last number and just turning looking for a stop on the last turn to the right. Nothing has worked. I have come to the conclusion that either the combination is incorrect or the lock mechanism is frozen or damaged. I have never tried any kind of safe manipulation. I suppose I can start teaching myself with internet sources. I don't suppose there is a member in the Charleston, SC area that wants to take a crack at it? All of the locksmiths I have contacted immediately speak of drilling and I really don't want to go that route.

I wouldn't just call a regular locksmith to open safes, find a locksmith who is a trained safe technician, and yes there is a big difference. Anyone can drill a safe with a cordless drill and call them selves a locksmith, but not all are properly trained. Visit SAVTA.org and find a safe technician near you and ask if they can "troubleshoot your combination or dialing order" or if they can "manipulate a Victor safe without any drilling or scoping" you can mention that the dial has the flat parts you use to retract the bolt and that there is no handle on this model.

I found this safe tech on the SAVTA website that you could give a call:

Crackerjack Locksmith
Robert Temple
843-873-0767
Summerville SC

Good luck!
Squelchtone

[Kimbolicus]

Thank you, Squelchtone! I just got off the phone with Bob and he will be here in about 30 minutes. I will post results (hopefully positive) as soon as I have them.

[Squelchtone]

Thank you, Squelchtone! I just got off the phone with Bob and he will be here in about 30 minutes. I will post results (hopefully positive) as soon as I have them.

I wonder what the prices are for this kind of thing these days.. could be $250, could be $750... curious if you feel like sharing, if not, no big deal. Worst case by the way, and it isn't really a worst case, he could drill a precision miniature hole, scope the wheels with a rigid borescope, open the safe and repair the small hole he drilled. Good as new. (I would not trust every locksmith shop with this task, which is why I mentioned cordless drill cowboys in my previous post, but I would trust a SAVTA safe technician with drilling and repairing a safe)

anyways, enough of my rambling!