Locking a Pelican 1750 and IM3220?

[Kenneth_V]

What is your purpose of locking the case besides securing the gun?

If you are trying to protect against a brute force entry into the case while on vacation or at the range why wouldn’t someone just walk away with the entire case? They are very portable. Destructive attacks would clearly be non-covert and detectable. The lock is not a great option against theft if the case can just be picked up, walked away with and broken into later in the comfort of their own garage.

If they were going to covertly enter the case without taking the whole case, perhaps to steal something little and lock the case back up, a pick resistant lock with a single use lockout tag to identify entry would work perfect.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here with high security locks on a case you can pick up and walk away with.

Please let me know if I am missing something and I will try an offer something more useful!!!

[emt1581]

What is your purpose of locking the case besides securing the gun?

If you are trying to protect against a brute force entry into the case while on vacation or at the range why wouldn’t someone just walk away with the entire case? They are very portable. Destructive attacks would clearly be non-covert and detectable. The lock is not a great option against theft if the case can just be picked up, walked away with and broken into later in the comfort of their own garage.

If they were going to covertly enter the case without taking the whole case, perhaps to steal something little and lock the case back up, a pick resistant lock with a single use lockout tag to identify entry would work perfect.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here with high security locks on a case you can pick up and walk away with.

Please let me know if I am missing something and I will try an offer something more useful!!!

Fair questions. No I'm not trying to guard against someone taking the entire case. Truth be told that is something I was curious about for rare situations. But for the purposes of this thread it's more for someone sneaking in when the case is briefly out of custody or even just view.

The pl330 and 88/50....I was under the impression both were pick resistant. No? Just haven't had experience with either brand so no idea which is better.

With the serialized/tamper seals, that was something else that was mentioned to me. Not sure where they are sold.

Thanks

[Squelchtone]

What is your purpose of locking the case besides securing the gun?

If you are trying to protect against a brute force entry into the case while on vacation or at the range why wouldn’t someone just walk away with the entire case? They are very portable. Destructive attacks would clearly be non-covert and detectable. The lock is not a great option against theft if the case can just be picked up, walked away with and broken into later in the comfort of their own garage.

If they were going to covertly enter the case without taking the whole case, perhaps to steal something little and lock the case back up, a pick resistant lock with a single use lockout tag to identify entry would work perfect.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here with high security locks on a case you can pick up and walk away with.

Please let me know if I am missing something and I will try an offer something more useful!!!

Fair questions. No I'm not trying to guard against someone taking the entire case. Truth be told that is something I was curious about for rare situations. But for the purposes of this thread it's more for someone sneaking in when the case is briefly out of custody or even just view.

The pl330 and 88/50....I was under the impression both were pick resistant. No? Just haven't had experience with either brand so no idea which is better.

With the serialized/tamper seals, that was something else that was mentioned to me. Not sure where they are sold.

Thanks

ULINE has a bunch of great stuff that might fit the bill.

this needs bolt cutters to be removed
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H- ... ode=WA9704

these are more of an indicator that someone was in your case
https://www.uline.com/BL_2303/Metal-Truck-Seals

[emt1581]

What is your purpose of locking the case besides securing the gun?

If you are trying to protect against a brute force entry into the case while on vacation or at the range why wouldn’t someone just walk away with the entire case? They are very portable. Destructive attacks would clearly be non-covert and detectable. The lock is not a great option against theft if the case can just be picked up, walked away with and broken into later in the comfort of their own garage.

If they were going to covertly enter the case without taking the whole case, perhaps to steal something little and lock the case back up, a pick resistant lock with a single use lockout tag to identify entry would work perfect.

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here with high security locks on a case you can pick up and walk away with.

Please let me know if I am missing something and I will try an offer something more useful!!!

Fair questions. No I'm not trying to guard against someone taking the entire case. Truth be told that is something I was curious about for rare situations. But for the purposes of this thread it's more for someone sneaking in when the case is briefly out of custody or even just view.

The pl330 and 88/50....I was under the impression both were pick resistant. No? Just haven't had experience with either brand so no idea which is better.

With the serialized/tamper seals, that was something else that was mentioned to me. Not sure where they are sold.

Thanks

ULINE has a bunch of great stuff that might fit the bill.

this needs bolt cutters to be removed
https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H- ... ode=WA9704

these are more of an indicator that someone was in your case
https://www.uline.com/BL_2303/Metal-Truck-Seals

I've never seen such a thing before with that ULINE. Very interesting. I'll look into it more. Still think I'd prefer a padlock.

Thanks

[Kenneth_V]

Does the 1750 have 2 metal protected locking hasps and 2 non-protected hasps?

if it does you can do 2 locks in the metal ones and a seal in the others

[emt1581]

Does the 1750 have 2 metal protected locking hasps and 2 non-protected hasps?

if it does you can do 2 locks in the metal ones and a seal in the others

The 1750 has two metal.

My im3220 has 4 plastic.

Only focusing on the 1750 for now.

Thanks

[Kenneth_V]

I was looking at pics of the 1750 online and in the pics it looks like there are 2 at the handle.

If it did then you could fully secure the case at both ends and tamper check the middle

[emt1581]

I was looking at pics of the 1750 online and in the pics it looks like there are 2 at the handle.

If it did then you could fully secure the case at both ends and tamper check the middle

Negative, two metal hasps/holes and that's all on the 1750.

[demux]

If you use any padlock that has "decent" security or above, you should be fine as that will move the weak link to other components of the system. I actually use a similar setup for one of my handguns. The case has two locking tabs with metal reinforced holes. I use a couple of American A3200's with cores I've set up myself to be... challenging... to pick. I epoxied the ends of the hinge pins to the top of the case to prevent removal (yes, they're recessed, but as Bill said they're still a potential weak point). Finally I secure the case to my car using a steel cable wrapped around one of my seat mounts and attached to the case with both padlocks. Not completely foolproof, but well beyond the "smash and grab" risk level that most thieves are looking for on automobile jobs...

[emt1581]

If you use any padlock that has "decent" security or above, you should be fine as that will move the weak link to other components of the system. I actually use a similar setup for one of my handguns. The case has two locking tabs with metal reinforced holes. I use a couple of American A3200's with cores I've set up myself to be... challenging... to pick. I epoxied the ends of the hinge pins to the top of the case to prevent removal (yes, they're recessed, but as Bill said they're still a potential weak point). Finally I secure the case to my car using a steel cable wrapped around one of my seat mounts and attached to the case with both padlocks. Not completely foolproof, but well beyond the "smash and grab" risk level that most thieves are looking for on automobile jobs...

Wow! Thanks for the info on reinforcing the hinges. What epoxy did you use? Are you able to post a pic of your hinge/application?

As for the lock, I'll look up the build of the A3200 but I want something I can just throw on and not monkey with, so no plans to replace any cores. I did find a pair of Abus 88's with Medeco cores which seemed impressive. Otherwise I'm still considering the Abus 88/50 or Abloy PL330.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

[demux]

The A3200 is American's "general purpose" SFIC lock. I tend to go that way because I like SFIC systems, and usually have at least half a dozen cores sitting around my shop that I can combinate and throw into things as needed, and you can get almost any security level you want from completely open to highly paracentric to restricted to full on electronic with time control and audit trail. The A3200 itself is not particularly high security, but it's got a hardened shackle and double ball bearing locking and a plate blocking the actuator to prevent common bypass attacks. Any lock that has at least those elements should be resistant to common attacks like shackle cutting, shimming, etc. I tend to go for the steel body locks over the brass body, but in reality there's probably not a lot of people out there attacking lock bodies so you really should be fine either way. I have a PL series in my collection and I think it would do just fine for this purpose. I've also got one or two Abus locks but not an 88 series so I couldn't speak specifically to that, but in general they also make quality stuff.

I would not spend a whole lot of money on padlocks in this particular application though. If I was a bad guy and really wanted your particular gun from your particular case, and didn't mind making some noise and dust to get it, any lock above what you might get at the local big box store will be enough to cause me to just take my sawzall to the top of the case and get in that way. In that instance, there is really no difference between a $35 lock and a $100 lock. But like I alluded to before most auto robberies are crimes of opportunity not specific targeting, so anything that the bad guy realizes is going to take him more than 5-10 seconds to pick, bypass, remove, or destroy is going to make him simply move on to another target where the risk of someone seeing him is much lower.

[emt1581]

The A3200 is American's "general purpose" SFIC lock. I tend to go that way because I like SFIC systems, and usually have at least half a dozen cores sitting around my shop that I can combinate and throw into things as needed, and you can get almost any security level you want from completely open to highly paracentric to restricted to full on electronic with time control and audit trail. The A3200 itself is not particularly high security, but it's got a hardened shackle and double ball bearing locking and a plate blocking the actuator to prevent common bypass attacks. Any lock that has at least those elements should be resistant to common attacks like shackle cutting, shimming, etc. I tend to go for the steel body locks over the brass body, but in reality there's probably not a lot of people out there attacking lock bodies so you really should be fine either way. I have a PL series in my collection and I think it would do just fine for this purpose. I've also got one or two Abus locks but not an 88 series so I couldn't speak specifically to that, but in general they also make quality stuff.

I would not spend a whole lot of money on padlocks in this particular application though. If I was a bad guy and really wanted your particular gun from your particular case, and didn't mind making some noise and dust to get it, any lock above what you might get at the local big box store will be enough to cause me to just take my sawzall to the top of the case and get in that way. In that instance, there is really no difference between a $35 lock and a $100 lock. But like I alluded to before most auto robberies are crimes of opportunity not specific targeting, so anything that the bad guy realizes is going to take him more than 5-10 seconds to pick, bypass, remove, or destroy is going to make him simply move on to another target where the risk of someone seeing him is much lower.

Again, appreciate the info you've shared!!

If I'm understanding you correctly, the A3200 is a pretty standard lock in toughness, but you beef up the unpickability by replacing the core. Now my way of thinking is that if I pay the $50 per lock for the Abus/Abloy, I don't have to monkey around with cores. Or I can buy the A3200 (coreless) for ~$20 and then buy a core that I'll have to research and then install. I have never bought a core before, just practice locks/picks/etc. But I'm guessing decent cores are $20+ right? So I'd still be in the ~$50 ballpark. If I'm off on anything, please let me know as I like saving time and money. But if not, is seems like there's no real difference in security between the Abloy and Abus models I asked about and I should just pick one of those.

You mentioned a thief cutting through the plastic, which absolutely could happen. But other than leaving it in a hotel room, this case will only be out of my sight/custody for very short periods of time while I do small tasks (ex. get gas, change targets on a 200-300yd range, etc.) Just want to make sure no one screws with it and if they do I'll know right away.

As for the epoxy, what did you use and how/where did you apply it?

EDIT: Just realized if I drop down to a 40 instead of a 50 with the 88 it's only ~$35 shipped. I've reached out to a couple sellers to see if I can get them keyed alike.

EDIT2: Now you have me considering going the SFIC route....but what would some options be fore brands and models to educate myself on and maybe buy for this application? I'd prefer a real screwy keyway but other than that, no real idea of what to look for.

Thanks

[demux]

SFIC cores are a unique and special animal, they're different from a typical rekeyable padlock that comes with a specific manufacturer core and keyway. They take some special tools and knowledge to set up and work on, but the advantage is you can replace just the core and thus change the key that operates the lock, the keyway, or even the type of access control without having to monkey with any of the rest of the locking hardware (or change out your locking hardware without having to get a new key). There's a great post over here with all the commonly available keyways. Some of the W series ones are extremely paracentric and quite difficult to get tools/picks in: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=59258

For securing the hinge, any sort of industrial adhesive that bonds well to plastic and metal will do. Epoxy, super glue, etc. The goal is to permanently affix the pin to either the top or bottom of the case (and let it rotate freely in the other part) so that even if a bad guy could get a grip on it he still wouldn't be able to pull the pin out.

To give a rough idea of price point, you should probably be looking to spend at least $30-$40 on a padlock for this use. Anything beyond $50 is probably overkill and throwing money away. Those prices will vary a bit depending on where you are in the world and current market conditions, but that's a rough guide.

Either way though, I would encourage you to also go with a cable or chain to affix the whole assembly to something big and heavy when you lock it up. Be it in a car, hotel room, etc this keeps someone from just walking out with the whole thing and taking their sweet time to get inside it back in their evil lair.

As an aside, if you do decide you want to go with an SFIC based system, shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to hook you up with some stuff for the cost of parts and shipping. I do a lot of SFIC stuff but for me it's a personal preference. Since we're talking about gun cases here I'll use an analogy you may get: they're kind of like the AR-15 of locks. There are tons of different components and as long as they're all spec compliant, they're infinitely modular and interchangeable. You can build your own security system to suit your individual tastes and security needs, and chances are there's someone out there selling the component you need to do what you want. I like it because I can literally have one key to operate everything from the front door of my house to padlocks to cabinet locks to electrical switches to... and I can rekey any of those at any time by simply swapping out the core with the control key.

[emt1581]

SFIC cores are a unique and special animal, they're different from a typical rekeyable padlock that comes with a specific manufacturer core and keyway. They take some special tools and knowledge to set up and work on, but the advantage is you can replace just the core and thus change the key that operates the lock, the keyway, or even the type of access control without having to monkey with any of the rest of the locking hardware (or change out your locking hardware without having to get a new key). There's a great post over here with all the commonly available keyways. Some of the W series ones are extremely paracentric and quite difficult to get tools/picks in: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=59258

For securing the hinge, any sort of industrial adhesive that bonds well to plastic and metal will do. Epoxy, super glue, etc. The goal is to permanently affix the pin to either the top or bottom of the case (and let it rotate freely in the other part) so that even if a bad guy could get a grip on it he still wouldn't be able to pull the pin out.

To give a rough idea of price point, you should probably be looking to spend at least $30-$40 on a padlock for this use. Anything beyond $50 is probably overkill and throwing money away. Those prices will vary a bit depending on where you are in the world and current market conditions, but that's a rough guide.

Either way though, I would encourage you to also go with a cable or chain to affix the whole assembly to something big and heavy when you lock it up. Be it in a car, hotel room, etc this keeps someone from just walking out with the whole thing and taking their sweet time to get inside it back in their evil lair.

As an aside, if you do decide you want to go with an SFIC based system, shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to hook you up with some stuff for the cost of parts and shipping. I do a lot of SFIC stuff but for me it's a personal preference. Since we're talking about gun cases here I'll use an analogy you may get: they're kind of like the AR-15 of locks. There are tons of different components and as long as they're all spec compliant, they're infinitely modular and interchangeable. You can build your own security system to suit your individual tastes and security needs, and chances are there's someone out there selling the component you need to do what you want. I like it because I can literally have one key to operate everything from the front door of my house to padlocks to cabinet locks to electrical switches to... and I can rekey any of those at any time by simply swapping out the core with the control key.

The SFIC is something I'll look more into for the future. But for right now I'm planning on going with a set of Abus 88/40 (because I learned the shackle on the 50 was 10mm which would be too big for the 1750). But for the future, seems like a cool pet to have if a particular key ever becomes compromised and for the versatility/standardization you talk about. Thanks for that offer as well.

I'll look more into the adhesive.

As for a cable/chain. Like I said, I was thinking of that for a separate thread but as I've figured out what lock I'm going with, let's throw it out there for discussion... The two questions I would have is 1) What cable or chain would be a good combination of being saw/bolt cutter resistant and at the same time portable/stored on board and 2) What's the best method of attachment to secure the case to a structure without making it easy to just strong-arm the anchor point on the case?

Thanks!

[demux]

As for a cable/chain. Like I said, I was thinking of that for a separate thread but as I've figured out what lock I'm going with, let's throw it out there for discussion... The two questions I would have is 1) What cable or chain would be a good combination of being saw/bolt cutter resistant and at the same time portable/stored on board and 2) What's the best method of attachment to secure the case to a structure without making it easy to just strong-arm the anchor point on the case?

Braided steel cable is the way to go here in my opinion. It's durable, flexible, and relatively lightweight (read: much easier to store/carry than chain) and can be had in a variety of thicknesses depending on your needs. You'll probably want something at least 1/8" with a safe work load limit of at least a few hundred pounds. You can usually buy it in 50' or 100' reels from your local hardware store, then cut to length as needed with an angle grinder. I like to buy the vinyl coated cable for stuff like this, as it keeps the cable from damaging whatever I secure it to, and keeps whatever I secure it to from damaging the cable. Then just swage a loop in each end (the tools and materials to do this are not as expensive as you might think, and once you have them you'll find yourself using this for all sorts of things). Wrap the cable around something, thread one loop through the other to secure it around that thing, then hook the other loop to the padlock on your case. One trick I've learned, when making the cable I'll throw a big fender washer on it before I swage the loops in, then I'll put the second padlock over the straight part of the cable secured to the second eye hole on the case, with the fender washer between the two. That way even if someone cut the shackle on the padlock holding the loop to the case, the washer and loop itself would still stop the cable from threading out through the second lock. In other words, to remove the case a bad guy would need to compromise both of my padlocks, or the cable itself.