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Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Forgot how to dial the combination on that old safe? Think you got the right numbers but the handle is stuck? What safe should you buy? Ask your safe questions here!
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You are posting this in This Old Safe, a public area of the forum.

Safe manipulation discussion is allowed, but safe drilling or other destructive entry is only allowed in the Advanced - Safes and Safe Locks area.

If you are a guest of the forum and have a safe you need to open, but you do not have the combination, we cannot tell you how or where to drill it.

Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby DanBauman » 20 Nov 2020 23:03

I bought this safe about 40 years ago and I've both forgotten the combination AND lost my card with the combination on it. According to the forum rules, I can't ask how to open it, but I have some technical questions I would like to ask. Please forgive me if I step on a rule, because I am trying not to...

First, I dont remember what I left in it when it was last open and I'm pretty sure I could destroy it to find out, but I would prefer not to damage it. Instead, I would like to solve the "puzzle" of entering it cleanly, then go back to using it. I bought it more for fire protection than theft protection.

I'm puzzled by the mechanism, because most safes that I've seen have a lever to "throw" once the correct combination has been entered, that moves the bolts. This has the 3-number 3L-2R-1L pattern, then turn R to open. If I remember correctly, during that final turn R process, it feels like the mechanism has "engaged" and somewhat spring loaded. Is there a description somewhere that explains how this mechanism works? I've searched in a browser, but I haven't found the right keywords to find what I'm looking for.

Is gravity a factor in opening this kind of lock?

From my recollection, I don't think I ever noticed an action occurring just because the combination had been entered correctly, such as something falling into place. It seems like the final turn to the R is what triggers the mechanism to initiate retraction of the bolt. Does that seem consistent with this mechanism?

Thanks for an help you can provide.
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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby Squelchtone » 21 Nov 2020 1:05

Hello and thank you for your question.

Unfortunately, due to the Aurora Borealis blocking our 3rd eye, we do not see what you have in front of you, so a photo or three would be greatly appreciated. Please upload to your favorite free image hosting site and Copy/Paste the links here. imgur.com is popular and fairly easy to upload photos to, instructions located here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=60483&p=445410#p445410

Looking forward to seeing your safe!

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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby bitbuster » 21 Nov 2020 10:32

Is it a Sears Tower labeled safe? If so, they are similar to Meilink or Victor small chest safes with 2 D-handles on the sides. Like Squelch recommends, post pics.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned". Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby DanBauman » 21 Nov 2020 17:55

Sorry... didn't think about pictures...

The safe just says "Sears", although the dial says: Federal Equipment Co., Carlisle, Penna".

Pictures at https://imgur.com/gallery/UVDx7Vu


Image

Image
Last edited by Squelchtone on 21 Nov 2020 19:04, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: inserted image inline: [image]https://i.imgur.com/VVVntLs.jpg[/image]
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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby Squelchtone » 21 Nov 2020 18:56

Based on how close your dial is to the edge of the door, your lock most likely looks like this inside:

Image

With enough patience you could figure out the combination.

This may be the patent for your lock: https://patents.google.com/patent/US3481167A/en

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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby bitbuster » 22 Nov 2020 11:43

Probably has a spring loaded latch, which is a clue on a possible easy opening. IF it is spring loaded.
"I dream of a world where, chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned". Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby Squelchtone » 22 Nov 2020 15:20

bitbuster wrote:Probably has a spring loaded latch, which is a clue on a possible easy opening. IF it is spring loaded.


it sure would be a real shame if that safe fell over on it's right side really hard and the door popped open..
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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby 00247 » 22 Nov 2020 20:49

Squelchtone wrote:it sure would be a real shame if that safe fell over on it's right side really hard and the door popped open..



This is all I have to say about that...



Forgive me, but I had a 6 volt tractor in the shop and just got this 1930's Model A horn working today. lol They always make me smile. :mrgreen:
You call that a safe? Let me show you a real safe...
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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby DanBauman » 22 Nov 2020 22:20

Thanks!!

I agree that it would be an awful shame if it opened that easily... although, I DID note in my original post that I bought it for fire protection of documents, not security. I have never secured it to the structure and, if I were worried about theft, I would have.

I have been looking at the patent you pointed out and that may very well be the right one. I haven't figured out how it works yet, but then I was trying to look at it on a phone.
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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby DanBauman » 31 Aug 2023 21:23

Hi everyone,

It has been about 3 years since I started this thread. I retrieved the patent that was suggested as the one for the lock on this safe. I started to digest it, but before I could delve into it seriously, "life" got in the way and I forgot about it until last week. After studying the patent (assuming this is the correct one), I came to some conclusions and I would like to get opinions on my thoughts about getting this safe open again.

Observations:
1) The drawings in the patent show a 50 number dial, while mine is 100 numbers.
2) The patent appears to define that the tumblers are encoded with a combination by inserting a "finger" through one of a number of holes around the edge of the tumbler. The drawing shows a theoretical 46 choices for each of the tumblers (if there were holes along 360 degrees of the tumblers), while there are only 43 actual holes, therefore 43 choices.
3) The notches in the tumblers appear to be rather wide, as compared to the "fence", which must fit into the aligned notches.
4) The "fence" appears to be spring-loaded, such that it would drop into the notches, once they are aligned.
5) Once the "fence" is in the aligned notches, the dial must be turned about a quarter-turn to the right (the 3rd number is reached by turning to the left) in order to move the bolt.
6) The patent discusses an "upset" mechanism, so that the combination that opens the safe is not still in-place after the safe is opened. That appears to only apply once the notches have been aligned, the fence has dropped into the notches, and the bolt has been moved to the open position. It does not appear to be engaged with an unsuccessful attempt to open the lock.

Conclusions:
1) It appears that there are only 46 possible "direct hits" on the combination for each tumbler.
2) It appears that the lock might open if the number is off one of these 46 numbers by half the distance to the next choice in either direction (e.g. 3.5-4.5 if that number were "4" and my dial had 46 numbers on it). Since my dial contains 100 numbers, it should open if I chose only even numbers for a complete scan of all possible combinations. Or even if I chose numbers that were separated by 3, if the notches were cut a little wider than illustrated.
3) If the "fence" is spring-loaded, I might even hear a sound, if I listen closely... perhaps with a stethoscope or microphone.
4) This mechanism is 3 tumblers, in a Left - Right - Left configuration, with a final turn to the right, once the combination is dialed in, to move the bolt. Without an upset mechanism in an unsuccessful attempt, it would appear that one can:
--- Turn the dial 2 full turns to the left to get the 1st number attempted and leave it there while trying multiple values for the second number of the combination (in descending order), returning to increment the 1st number.
--- Likewise, while trying a single second number value, by moving the dial left (increasing the number) to try multiple 3rd numbers, returning to adjust the 2nd number (decreasing it) and continuing the 3rd number attempts (until the attempt to move the bolt causes the dial to pass the 2nd number).

Question: Am I approaching this with the most reasonable assumptions? Or am I missing something significant that I should be aware of?

Thanks!

Dan
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Re: Cheap old Sears wall safe with no lever

Postby MJS » 15 Dec 2024 22:33

I think I have this safe that I got from my grandfather.

The combination to mine is:

Turn left at least 4 turns stopping at 32

Turn right passing the first number two times to 93

Turn left passing the 2nd number one time to 59

Turn right until it stops 82 and pull the door open
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