Cary safe w combo can't open

[mjn77]

Hi, new here. My mother in law has this old Cary safe we've been trying to get into since her husband died. Combination does not seem to work.
Have looked at the instructions from this post viewtopic.php?f=36&t=60456&p=445436&hilit=Cary#p445436 and have tried to determine if all the wheels are picking up but not sure. When I go 6 times to left to 50 and then start back to right cannot really feel anything the first time to 50, second time seems to be more like around 60 I feel more resistance and third time maybe around 40 or so. It does get very hard to dial after that. The combination is 4 numbers in the format of 4L 3R 2L R to last number which is 90. The dial does not stop here as I saw in the post I referenced. I've tried going past 90 to see if it stops anywhere but it did not. Also not sure which way the handle should turn and how much resistance there would be. Anything else I can try? Thanks in advance.
Mike

Here are a couple pics: https://i.imgur.com/GSTnpp1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/uyNbWun.jpg

[MartinHewitt]

The handle should turn clockwise/right.

Cary did use lots of different locks. They had their own locks and used Yale and Sargent & Greenleaf locks. My guess is, that it is one of their own. All of their own are so called direct entry or straight tailpiece locks. When the handle is turned right the bolt work comes into direct contact with the wheels. Then either turning is much more difficult or even impossible. They had two different locks, the more simple C-5 and the C-3, which as gears. If you turn the dial you should be able to hear interacting gears if it is a C-3, which I believe it is.

That the dial stops happens only when the correct combination is dialled and only when it is not a straight tailpiece lock. With this kind of lock there is a last number, where the dial has to be stopped. Then the handle can be turned to open the safe. The direction of dialling is not determined by the lock in case of a straight tailpiece, but a combination is working just in one direction. So you do try to use both. The counts of 4-3-2-1 is correct for a 3-wheel lock. Though the C-3 can also (only?) be a 4-wheel.

If the lock is a C-3 the wheels are screw change. The pickup will happen before a full turn.

[Squelchtone]

Sometimes owners leave their combination in a shorthand or code only they understand. if you can email me a photo of the actual paperwork that was left with the combination on it, I can rewrite instructions on how *I* would dial it open..

squelchtone at lockpicking101 dot com

Squechtone

[mjn77]

Thanks for the info. So is there a way to confirm if this is a c-3? Squelchtone I will send you a pic.

[Squelchtone]

Thanks for the info. So is there a way to confirm if this is a c-3? Squelchtone I will send you a pic.

I got the pic, thanks, need a couple hours to turn it around. I'll check when I get home if one of my books has which lock it is or isnt.

[mjn77]

No problem, thanks

[Squelchtone]

Thanks for the info. So is there a way to confirm if this is a c-3? Squelchtone I will send you a pic.

What is the distance from center of handle ball to center of combination dial? if it is 6 inches it is an indirect C-3 lock and has 4 wheels PLUS the driver wheel..

So you will have to dial the 4 number combination, and then also turn the driver (essentially the 5th wheel) to the correct position to allow the handle to turn.

How certain are you that the combination you sent me is the one for this safe?

gmail is having issues world wide again today, so I got a bounce back when I tried to reply to your email. will try to offer help here.

Squelchtone

[mjn77]

I'll measure tomorrow and let you know. I'll also ask how sure she is.

[mjn77]

It is 6" from center of handle to center of dial. She is not positive about the combination though, so there should be another number?

[Squelchtone]

It is 6" from center of handle to center of dial. She is not positive about the combination though, so there should be another number?

That's what it's looking like. There is a chance someone set 2 of the wheels to the same number which turns 4 number combinations into 3 number combinations which are easier to remember and dial in.

Gmail was having issues yesterday, but I'll try to email you some instructions to try today.

Squelchtone

[mjn77]

Ok, thanks again

[MartinHewitt]

If it is a screw-change C-3, I don't think it is possible to set two wheels to the same number. I would try to use the four numbers as the wheels' combination and then apply light handle pressure while turning the dial back, i.e. 5R-4L-3R-2L-pressure-R and 5L-4R-3L-2R-pressure-L.

[mjn77]

I'll try that over weekend and any other ideas. Thanks