Old lock needs identifying and replacing if possible

[par1sons]

Hi all,

Im new to this forum because i've hit a brickwall in trying identify a lock ive inherited after a house purchase which i really want to repair or replace. Im told the door is the original door installed between 1935 and 1950

So, i have an old Oak front door with a lock barrel which reads PW & A LTD. The lock itself doesnt turn anymore and the dead bolt doesnt turn either into the door frame. Ive had a locksmith trying to fix both issues for me but he's not been able to. The option ive got now is to fit the old lock back in the door - visual reasons only - and have a new lock fitted below. However, before i go ruining the door - i really dont want to cut more holes in - i thought id join this group and to see if anyone could shed any light on the lock and barrel, and perhaps even know where i could get a replacement from.

Ive attached images of the lock, barrel and door with sizes so you can take a look and see what you think.

Thanks all,

Andy

[Squelchtone]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

It would help us tremendously if you let us know which state/country you are from as we have members from many English speaking countries and lock brands can often be found to exist in certain regions and often a brand you see in Boston and New York City may not ever be seen in San Francisco or Seattle, or the reverse of that example.

I would be worried if your locksmith can't help with this, is it a real locksmith shop that you walked into or some guy from the phone book? find the oldest locksmith shop in your area and walk in there with this lock. I think what you're calling a barrel, is what most folks call a lock cylinder.

Thanks for any additional info,
Squelchtone

[par1sons]

Hiya,

I am actually based in the UK lol. Ill admit i didnt realise is was a US forum, DOH!

Im guessing you guys might not be able to help then, which is absolutely fine. Not sure there is UK forum just for locksmiths lol

Thanks all

Andy

[Squelchtone]

Greetings from across the pond! We do have some UK members here.

If it helps in your search, your lock was made by Parker Winder & AChurch LTD of Birmingham

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1914ICB-p161.jpg

If the lock cylinder is the issue, it can be changed out to something else like a Yale (as long as you can affix the cam from the back of the existing mortise cylinder to the back of a new mortise cylinder. From the photos, it looks like it could use a good cleaning and some new lubrication.

If the issue is a spring or some other bit inside the mortise lock case that slides into the edge of the door, a good locksmith should be able to service the parts inside, or even you could open the cover and take a look for anything that looks worn out that needs replacing or some work.

We're happy to take a look if you can post a photo with the cover off the lock case.

Does the key insert easily and turn left or right or does the key not turn at all?

Thank you,
Squelchtone

[par1sons]

Hiya Squelchtone, thanks for the reply.

Yes the lock cylinder had been butchered by someone else trying to repair it years ago so my locksmith shop managed to get in a 3rd pin (i think they're called that lol) but couldnt insert a 4th or 5th because its far too damaged. The cylinder now turns left and right but it doesnt lock the sash lock unfortunately. Another locksmith has tried to repair the sash lock by making a new cam for the cylinder but sadly that's failed. I am getting the whole lot back today so ill see what is said.

As for the finding out the lock name, THANK YOU VERY MUCH Ive done some searching since knowing that and theres hardly anything in terms of replacements for this lock so i think ill have to resort to a new sash or deadlock to fit in the existing hole in the door. The locksmith may have to add a very small amount of packing but at least ive tried to have the original repaired.

Ill certainly send some pics of the sash opened once i get it back to see what you think, THANK YOU

Andy

[rphillips52]

Squelchtone has given the OP a good answer.
PW&A were ironmongers in Birmingham. Originally they made the goods, but later buying-in and badging finished goods for re-sale. In this practice, they were not alone. As PW&A, the company's independent existence ended in 1992.

These US-inspired (and sometimes actually imported) cylinder mortice locks were very modern in the 1930s, though were never most common in Britain. This looks like a mortice locking latch, as I can only see one bolt, with a snib in the forend. As said, a clean could be a good start. Screw-in mortice cylinders are still available, though it might be necessary to swap the cam. Real locksmiths can also provide new springs if needed. It should not be too difficult to put such a lock into working order, so long as the castiron case is not broken. It might be necessary to employ a bricks-and-mortar locksmith who is not local. Locksmiths who do conservation work on old locks tend to have customers from around the country, not just locally.

However, especially if this is only a latch, it is unlikely to tick an Insurer's boxes. It is commendable to seek to preserve a good wooden door — there are many of these quality doors still in service. An Insurer is likely to require, as a condition for providing insurance cover, that the door be fitted with a lock conforming to BS3621(or at least equal to this standard). That usually means a lever mortice lock. For the most discreet keyhole (and excellent security), a Bramah deadlock could be used. However, a call-centre box-ticker is unlikely to accept that, and you should have your Insurer's agreement in writing. Incidentally, if the OP does choose to fit a Bramah mortice deadlock, Bramah can provide a matching mortice cylinder, so 1 key operates both the latch and the deadlock. Bramah screw-in mortice, and rim-cylinders, are provided only to existing registered keys, so it would be necessary to buy the Bramah mortice lock.
If the lock is out of the door for some time, there are probably surface bolts on the door.

[billdeserthills]

Only mortise lock I have with a 1" backset that could fit would be a Marks 2750 thinline profile lock
https://www.edlocks.com/marks-lock-thin ... reen-door/

[cledry]

There should be nothing in that lock that a competent locksmith could not fix for a price. The trick is finding a competent locksmith.

[GWiens2001]

There should be nothing in that lock that a competent locksmith could not fix for a price. The trick is finding a competent locksmith.

+1

Gordon

[Joe V]

If its the mortise lock it is usually a broken spring which is easily replaced, however if you take the cover off be gentle as things can get out of place and then you have a puzzle to figure out to get it working. As far as the lock cylinder that should not be a big deal and looks like you already have a key.